KOPS......again.

[Vantage]

Bottom line is, are you comfortable?

Your pic shows a seatpost that seems to have quite a bit of layback (if that's the right term). Perhaps something closer to inline to bring your 'but' forward = less stretched out?

Not especially. I find myself constantly shifting too and fro on the saddle due to numb hands or sore neck.
Inline seatpost was my thinking too. Unfortunately the one I was after has now sold out

[Vantage]

What I tend to find is that there's rather alot of weight on my hands when riding and my arms nearly always locked out straight.
Something colin531 said a while ago was that we should be able to ride with our fingertips on the bars whilst feeling perfectly balanced. I can't do that. I have to put in some effort to stop myself plunging into the front wheels spokes.
Just wondered if I have some sort of weird geometry in my body proportions. Fwiw, I'm 5'4" and the bike is Spa's smallest at 47cm short version Wayfarer.

[freeflow]

Your description means that you saddle needs to go back further than it is at the moment. No amount of fiddling with the handlebar position will solve your problem.

[freeflow]

For information I have a large setback on my saddle. The distance from the vertical line through the bottom bracket to the middle of the saddle is 25 cm.

On my Dawes Supergalaxy this means (due to a 27.0mm seastpost) that I have to use a setback seatpost and a VK adaptor to get the saddle in the right position.

On my other bike, a combination of a Selle Smp Trk saddle and nitto S84 seatpost do the job.

This was a consequence of I bike fit that I had which cured a large number of issues I was having but left me much much more stretched out on the bike than I had been previously. e.g. I also went from an 80mm to 120 mm stem. It took a couple of months to get used to the new position, particularly the muscles in my lower back left side. Now I don't have issues and wouldn't go back.

[531colin]

Hi Bill
One of the problems with the world is that it is designed almost exclusively for those of "average male height".
You are on a 47cm Wayfarer, which is the smallest frame I could fit 700c wheels into. It would probably be better with 26" wheels, but the market demands 700c. Also you could probably get on the next size up (50cm) but that has about 10mm longer reach to the bars.
I'm going to post some pictures from my DIY bike fit piece; first here is me before my 70th birthday demonstrating KOPS...
KOPS by 531colin, on Flickr
Next is me riding the turbo; note my foot is level at the bottom of the stroke....
foot level on bottom pedal by 531colin, on Flickr
So for me age 69 with my saddle height set as we did it in the sixties, KOPS works. I used to be over 5'10" in my socks; now at 73 I can't reach 5'9" in shoes....but still probably within "average male height".
From your photo, I would guess you will point your toes at the bottom of the stroke, but in any case its readily possible that KOPS won't "work" for you.
At 73, KOPS no longer works for me. As somebody said, pushing the pedal down gives an "equal and opposite" force (of Newtonian physics) which tends to support your thorax; my 73 year old legs don't push as hard as they used to, so I need my saddle further back than KOPS or I have too much weight on my hands.

[531colin]

So, where from here?
Somebody already said, start with saddle height. Most "club-type" cyclists I see on the road have their saddle much higher than I do, so they point their toes at the bottom of the stroke. I don't know why they all do this. I keep asking.
Second is saddle setback. KOPS is regularly rubbished by all sorts of people who (mostly) don't suggest anything better. (Is KOPS any less logical than setting your saddle height with a straight leg and your heel on the pedal? Or reach by the relative positions in your view of the handlebar and front hub?)
Now for a logical way of setting saddle setback. Ride gently up a rising road. At a very low power output, you will have weight on your hands. As you increase power and speed, a time will come when the weight comes off your hands, then you will start pulling up and back on the bars. This is what gives your hands a rest. For a 73 year old with arthritic hands, its necessary to have the weight come off my hands several times an hour, so the pedalling effort to un-weight my hands has to be slight...so my saddle is further back than KOPS these days, because my legs are weaker.
Once you have saddle height and setback right, you can start to think about where to put the bars.....and only then!
If your hands hurt, its generally because you have too much weight on your hands....riding with your elbows locked is a sign of this, as is pitching forward if you let go of the bars. If you have too much weight on your hands, the LAST thing you want is an in-line seatpost.
So, putting your saddle back takes weight off your hands.
Putting your saddle back also increases the load on your hamstrings (and maybe glutes) while reducing the load on your quads. This takes time to get used to, but the aim is that at the end of a ride you are tired; just tired all over, not with one muscle group screaming.
(moving your cleats back will load your quads)

[Vantage]

Thanks for that Colin! I was hoping you'd have something to say on this matter
Inline seatpost is out the window, the saddle has been put 10mm back and lowered a smidgin to account for it. That'll save me a few bob. I'll do small increments for now and see what happens. I need this sorting before I go on tour.
The thing about having the legs of an anorexic chicken resulting in increased weight on the hands makes sense as I'm a pretty weak cyclist, where muscle is concerned.
I wondered about feet pointing down as I read something about somewhere before and I have checked this, I've got flat feet. So that's not a worry for me.

[CyberKnight]

is it me or do the bake levers look really low on the bars ?

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/download/file.php?id=73880&mode=view


You can of course get short reach bars , my 2 leisure bikes have the same geometry but one has a really short reach bar andi had to get a stem 2 cm longer to give me the same reach.

[CyberKnight]

is it me or do the bake levers look really low on the bars ?



You can of course get short reach bars , my 2 leisure bikes have the same geometry but one has a really short reach bar andi had to get a stem 2 cm longer to give me the same reach.

[jimlews]

Inline seatpost forbidden, so..

May be worth trying a riser stem.
I alleviated sore neck and numb hands by having the bars level with the saddle, or even perhaps a little higher.
It is, after all a touring bike and you'll want to be looking around; taking in all that scenery.

I'll get back in my foxhole now and await the flac!

[Vantage]

Update time!

The brake levers are actually mounted quite high up on the bar. The bar is a Deda Elementi Speciale described as having classic geometry...whatever that is. It does seem to have short tops though.

A bit of messing about on the turbo last night at stupid o'clock had me setting the saddle back a good 20mm and a swap from my 60mm stem to my 80mm stem. I also have a 70mm stem. I could almost run a shop.
A ride with my pilot (Tara the doggy) around the local park was favourable in that the weight on my hands felt vastly reduced although I did feel a little stretched. Oddly enough, there was also a bend in my arms! How did that happen!
I'm off for a proper ride tomorrow so I'll know better then how well the changes have worked although I know it'll probably take a bit of time to get fully used to it.
All looking good atm though.
Thanks everyone

[Jdsk]

Doing the experiment! Great. : - )

Jonathan

PS: Will that also be in video game inspired attire? ; - )

[Jdsk]

is it me or do the bake levers look really low on the bars ?

How experienced are you?

Jonathan

[freeflow]

If your saddle needs to go back further then a Humpert ergotec futura seat post.is one I'd suggest looking at.

[Paulatic]

Update time! Oddly enough, there was also a bend in my arms! How did that happen!

Thanks everyone

Probably because you aren’t bracing them to hold your body up. They are now relaxed