Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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simonineaston
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Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Postby simonineaston » 18 Aug 2020, 9:52am

Every single road racer I've seen whizzing along on (say) the Tour De France is fitted with dual-pivot side-pull brakes. Does it follow that this design is the best you can get, surpassing the performance of linear-pull or disk brakes? Or are there bureaucratic reasons for the choice, that is to say, the design of the brake is specified by the sport's governing body?
The reason I ask is that my current frameset is fitted with calliper brakes and I am contemplating changing the front brake to another design, but if the dual-pivot side-pull brake currently in place is simply the best I can get, I won't bother... !
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st599_uk
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Postby st599_uk » 18 Aug 2020, 9:54am

Disk brakes are banned in the Tour de France. Apparently they act like a bacon slicer in the event of a pile up.
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iandusud
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Postby iandusud » 18 Aug 2020, 10:32am

st599_uk wrote:Disk brakes are banned in the Tour de France. Apparently they act like a bacon slicer in the event of a pile up.


Plenty of teams using disc brakes in the Tour de France last year.

TDF.jpg

MartinC
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Postby MartinC » 18 Aug 2020, 11:26am

Caliper, cantilever, disc, drum and roller brakes can all provide all the power and modulation you need, or not, depending on the quality of the kit and the way it's installed and maintained. If you've got other criteria like weight, complexity, tyre clearance, rim wear, mud clogging, thermal efficiency, consumables, fashion, etc. then "bestest" will be more closely defined.

Spoon brakes and foot dragging are probably not in contention though.

st599_uk
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Postby st599_uk » 18 Aug 2020, 11:32am

iandusud wrote:
st599_uk wrote:Disk brakes are banned in the Tour de France. Apparently they act like a bacon slicer in the event of a pile up.


Plenty of teams using disc brakes in the Tour de France last year.

TDF.jpg



Okay, they were banned the last time I worked on it with France TV.

I remember them desperately adding weight as the bikes were too light to count.
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simonhill
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Postby simonhill » 18 Aug 2020, 12:05pm

A flip flop on the front wheel is favoured in some less well off countries.

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Mick F
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Postby Mick F » 18 Aug 2020, 2:52pm

simonineaston wrote: ............ is fitted with dual-pivot side-pull brakes.
Some us have DP at the front, and SP at the rear.
Campag have a system of "differential braking" in that you don't need a DP at the rear.

My Moulton has (Shimano 105) DP front AND rear, but TBH the rear brake is too powerful so I have to be aware of the rear wheel skidding, which happens often under hard braking.

My Mercian has Campag Athena with a SP at the rear ............ and it's much better as you can squeeze both levers the same, without an easy rear skid.
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Syd
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Postby Syd » 18 Aug 2020, 3:12pm

My commuter, mountain and winter bikes all have hydraulic disk brakes. The remaining ones are standard DP.

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Mick F
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Postby Mick F » 18 Aug 2020, 3:25pm

So ............ why are (some) bicycle brakes the same front and rear?
Cheapness and simplicity?

Take a look at motor vehicle brakes. Very different powers plus they have limiters and balancers to make the braking even.
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jimlews
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Postby jimlews » 18 Aug 2020, 3:36pm

Mick F wrote:So ............ why are (some) bicycle brakes the same front and rear?
Cheapness and simplicity?

Take a look at motor vehicle brakes. Very different powers plus they have limiters and balancers to make the braking even.


Bicycle brakes can be identical f&r because they have a very sophisticated organic computer providing intelligent coordination of braking input to each brake individually. Phew!

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foxyrider
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Postby foxyrider » 18 Aug 2020, 3:37pm

Mick F wrote:
simonineaston wrote: ............ is fitted with dual-pivot side-pull brakes.
Some us have DP at the front, and SP at the rear.
Campag have a system of "differential braking" in that you don't need a DP at the rear.

My Moulton has (Shimano 105) DP front AND rear, but TBH the rear brake is too powerful so I have to be aware of the rear wheel skidding, which happens often under hard braking.

My Mercian has Campag Athena with a SP at the rear ............ and it's much better as you can squeeze both levers the same, without an easy rear skid.


I have 2 pairs of Campag SR brakes one mixed DP/SP, the other dual DP - Campag suggest that for riders under 90kg the former is more than adequate, indeed i've never had issue with the arrangement. The bike with dual DP's often carries a load, well full touring clobber and i find the extra grunt reassuring but it does need more thoughtful braking when running light.

That doesn't mean every DP is brilliant or even that every SP is less good, block materials, levers used, cables used, rider weight etc, etc can all influence brake performance, i have some '80's Galli Criteriums that work almost as well as the twentyteen Campag SR but not quite :roll:

If you have a frame that needs a centre bolt rim brake then a good quality dual pivot is probably it, you do however get what you pay for, don't expect Tektro's to work as sweetly as top of the range Campag! Direct mount rim brakes may have an edge on performance but the frame/fork needs to be built for that arrangement specifically. As for discs, less braking moment means more grunt needed through the operating system but also gives more tendency for lock upswhich may well be okay on dirt but on the roads, less desirable! I can easily lock up SP rim brakes so why would i want more non stopping power? Stopping the wheel faster is only desirable if you are in full control, any loss of that control can spell disaster, whatever the vehicle.
Convention? what's that then?
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MartinC
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Postby MartinC » 18 Aug 2020, 4:10pm

simonhill wrote:A flip flop on the front wheel is favoured in some less well off countries.


I think in engineering terms this a variation of the spoon brake. Avoidance of any toe in with this type of brake is essential.

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simonineaston
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Postby simonineaston » 18 Aug 2020, 4:14pm

iandusud wrote:Plenty of teams using disc brakes in the Tour de France last year.
I did wonder about my initial claim that only side-pull brakes appear in the TDF... mind you, last time I looked, it was all about Bernard Hinault. :?
Last edited by simonineaston on 18 Aug 2020, 4:56pm, edited 1 time in total.
byyeee,
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Syd
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Postby Syd » 18 Aug 2020, 4:35pm

Mick F wrote:So ............ why are (some) bicycle brakes the same front and rear?
Cheapness and simplicity?

Take a look at motor vehicle brakes. Very different powers plus they have limiters and balancers to make the braking even.

All my disc brake bikes have smaller rotors on the rear when compared to the front.

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Mick F
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Postby Mick F » 18 Aug 2020, 6:01pm

Syd wrote:
Mick F wrote:So ............ why are (some) bicycle brakes the same front and rear?
Cheapness and simplicity?

Take a look at motor vehicle brakes. Very different powers plus they have limiters and balancers to make the braking even.

All my disc brake bikes have smaller rotors on the rear when compared to the front.
Excellent, but am I not right by saying it's not the same on all bikes?
Mick F. Cornwall