Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
reohn2
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Post by reohn2 »

Brucey wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
NOTE:- my answers are in bold type within the quoted post.


well let's just say your experiences differ from mine, and that of other folks too. As an example of how far off beam you are on most of the above here are some examples of something you were probably most dismissive of;

Image

Image

Because this post,in particularly these photos,irk so much and give such a false picture of discs I've decided I'll give it one last shot.
If discs pose such a threat to health why aren't disc rotors,chainrings,brake levers even,guarded?
I'll give you a clue,it's because the threat of injury is so small as to be insignificant

There are many other everyday potential injurious and unguarded implements such as chainsaws,axes,kitchen knives,gas cookers,etc,etc,that are far worse than disc brakes!

The point is that anyone can prove anything to be a danger to the public by grabbing a few horror stories off the web,in this case you're grasping at straws to prove a point so obscure as to be practically none existent.
People do this all the time to try and prove cycling as a whole to be so dangerous as to need a helmet and other protective equipment to nip out to the shops for a paper!

I can further justify every single point I made originally, but honestly, I don't feel the need to do so; most of them are self-evident or are fairly common knowledge

But you do need to prove it because your claims aren't self-evident or common knowledge to the people who use discs!
Mine and many other people who use disc brakes prove your opinions on discs to be wrong daily.
If other brakes work for you,and your points about drums are valid IMO,that's fine I've no quarrel with that but stop the dragging down of disc brakes by unfounded opinion when others opinions differ from yours.

There's no such thing as a perfect brake, and workarounds exist for many of the drawbacks in various different braking systems. But -as some here seem to want to do- simply to pretend that various drawbacks in disc brakes simply don't exist or don't ever matter is real head in the sand stuff, surely?

cheers

I never claimed there was perfect brake and I don't pretend anything or stick my head in the sand
There are bound to be drawbacks to any system,whatever the system,but I refute most of your percieved drawbacks,I refute them by experience over a decade of use and I gave my reasons for that.

I hope that's clear enough,though I strongly suspect it won't be for you.
I speak from experience of riding a variety of rim brakes and one type of cable disc brake.
I have nothing more to add to this discussion other than to say that I know what works best for me and tire of the anti disc brake nonsense trotted out by others on the forum and will now withdraw.
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cycle tramp
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Post by cycle tramp »

NUKe wrote:Would you lot start fighting if you were face to face, if this had been a pub discussion, would you have been at each other’s throats by now?

sorry but each type of braking has it merits and it’s flaws and different systems do fit different applications.. so please stop WWIII and taking every comment so literal.

.


Gosh, is that an invite to a melee? Its ages since I've been invited to one of them. If we're fighting indoors I'm taking my chain mail shirt, small shield and short double headed axe...

After all these pages of 'best brakes' I still can't believe no one has ever suggested the humble coaster brake - because it uses leg muscles transmitted through the chain, it's so powerful that anyone can lock the rear wheel in a matter of seconds.... if only they could produce some sort of coaster brake multi-sprocket design... that would be brilliant :-)
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Post by The utility cyclist »

Pneumant wrote:In answer to the thread title (..bestest?!) and for a road bike I nominate the esteemed late 80's Shimano 1050 Single Pivots. An excellent design. Light in weight, smooth & powerful action (ball bearing pivot) with lots of feel, possible to have a firm feeling brake with the blocks not set close to the rim and also possible to easily adjust so the brake arms are the same distance from the rim both sides, the brake will hold this position irrespective of block wear (so no pad adjustment required to compensate for wear -unlike a DPB).
105sp.JPG I prefer these brakes overall to DPB's.

Very nice brakes those 105s, I had some of the slightly earlier 600 series single pivots, absolutely loved them performance wise and nice looking too, for a retro machine that I'd want to be using with some vigour I'd have them again in a heartbeat.
Mine were fitted to a Geoffrey Hughes (GPH Heswall) 531ST machine, you could easily fit 32mm tyres under guards with them, regretted selling them on tbh, I could have used them on another older bike I decided to keep.doh
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iandusud
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Post by iandusud »

The utility cyclist wrote:
Pneumant wrote:In answer to the thread title (..bestest?!) and for a road bike I nominate the esteemed late 80's Shimano 1050 Single Pivots. An excellent design. Light in weight, smooth & powerful action (ball bearing pivot) with lots of feel, possible to have a firm feeling brake with the blocks not set close to the rim and also possible to easily adjust so the brake arms are the same distance from the rim both sides, the brake will hold this position irrespective of block wear (so no pad adjustment required to compensate for wear -unlike a DPB).
105sp.JPG I prefer these brakes overall to DPB's.

Very nice brakes those 105s, I had some of the slightly earlier 600 series single pivots, absolutely loved them performance wise and nice looking too, for a retro machine that I'd want to be using with some vigour I'd have them again in a heartbeat.
Mine were fitted to a Geoffrey Hughes (GPH Heswall) 531ST machine, you could easily fit 32mm tyres under guards with them, regretted selling them on tbh, I could have used them on another older bike I decided to keep.doh


I have a set Shimano 600 circa 1989 on my Moulton and despite the 17" wheels the braking is very good.
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simonineaston
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Post by simonineaston »

iandusud wrote:...despite the 17" wheels the braking is very good.
Why are we thinking the diameter of the wheel affects its ability to slow down?
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
ratherbeintobago
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Post by ratherbeintobago »

simonineaston wrote:I see I was being naive, as per... I should've known. The answer to the Q, is therefore that old IT support favourite response to most of our customers' enquiries - that is, "Well... it depends..."!


It does. I’ve got Hope X2s on my mountain bike (180F/160R) which is fine for my usage case. On the HoD I have Shimano LX V-brakes which are also good enough (and a vast improvement on the cantis it had before).

For raw power, any four pot DH brake with a 200mm disc is going to be pretty good; for weight/modulation, maybe less so.
iandusud
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Post by iandusud »

simonineaston wrote:
iandusud wrote:...despite the 17" wheels the braking is very good.
Why are we thinking the diameter of the wheel affects its ability to slow down?


For the same reason that the size of brake disc affects it effectiveness. :)
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simonineaston
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Post by simonineaston »

iandusud wrote:For the same reason that the size of brake disc affects it effectiveness. :)
And what's that then?
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
ratherbeintobago
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Post by ratherbeintobago »

simonineaston wrote:
iandusud wrote:For the same reason that the size of brake disc affects it effectiveness. :)
And what's that then?


Bigger radius = more leverage (and presumably more metal means better heat dissipation?)
Brucey
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Post by Brucey »

reohn2 wrote:
Because this post,in particularly these photos,irk so much and give such a false picture of discs I've decided I'll give it one last shot.
If discs pose such a threat to health why aren't disc rotors,chainrings,brake levers even,guarded?
I'll give you a clue,it's because the threat of injury is so small as to be insignificant....


try asking folk who have burnt themselves if the threat was 'insignificant'...?

These are actual injuries which have been quite needlessly caused by some idiotic fashion to put brakes which look as if they belong on a motorcycle (but are nothing like as well made) onto a bicycle. It happens often.

I can't think of anything more flippin' stupid, than to deliberately attach a lump of metal to a bicycle (which is going to be ridden by folk who are likely to be under rather than overdressed) which is both entirely unprotected and, in its normal function, likely to become nigh-on red hot. It is about as nonsensical as this year's must-have bikini accessory being a live welding torch down your pants.... :roll:

It is foolish to compare with chainsaws etc because there is PPE, and chainsaws won't work at all with the cutting blades protected, whereas discs can be shielded, but the manufacturers just choose not to. For what reason? Fashion probably, which is the main reason they are there in the first place I suspect. Other brakes don't have the same issues.

Remember that I only made an example of disc burns because that was one of the things you were most dismissive of, saying that I was 'clutching at straws' in a derisory fashion. These things are a real problem and cause real injuries, and people who should know better just pooh-pooh the facts because it suits their world view for some reason.

Be 'irked' and bleat all you like, but disc brakes on bicycles are a pretty half-baked idea in many respects. I am quite able to justify every single one of the points I made earlier; sorry if the facts are awkward and 'irksome' to you, it is just how it is.

cheers
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Brucey
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Post by Brucey »

ratherbeintobago wrote:
simonineaston wrote:
iandusud wrote:For the same reason that the size of brake disc affects it effectiveness. :)
And what's that then?


Bigger radius = more leverage (and presumably more metal means better heat dissipation?)


With rim brakes the rim is nigh-on at the same radius as the thrust from the road on the tyre, so in terms of raw power rim brakes are as effective as one another regardless of wheel size. Where small -wheelers lose out is that the rim and tyre are smaller and lighter and tend to overheat more quickly than with larger wheels.

cheers
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mercalia
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Post by mercalia »

a large part of the soln is to get the right blocks. I struggled with my V brakes and ceramic rims until I found Shimano S70(C) brake blocks which do a very good job even in the wet once the the rain has been removed
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simonineaston
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Post by simonineaston »

so in terms of raw power rim brakes are as effective as one another regardless of wheel size.
Phew - had me worried there for a moment... !
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Post by The utility cyclist »

iandusud wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
Pneumant wrote:In answer to the thread title (..bestest?!) and for a road bike I nominate the esteemed late 80's Shimano 1050 Single Pivots. An excellent design. Light in weight, smooth & powerful action (ball bearing pivot) with lots of feel, possible to have a firm feeling brake with the blocks not set close to the rim and also possible to easily adjust so the brake arms are the same distance from the rim both sides, the brake will hold this position irrespective of block wear (so no pad adjustment required to compensate for wear -unlike a DPB).
105sp.JPG I prefer these brakes overall to DPB's.

Very nice brakes those 105s, I had some of the slightly earlier 600 series single pivots, absolutely loved them performance wise and nice looking too, for a retro machine that I'd want to be using with some vigour I'd have them again in a heartbeat.
Mine were fitted to a Geoffrey Hughes (GPH Heswall) 531ST machine, you could easily fit 32mm tyres under guards with them, regretted selling them on tbh, I could have used them on another older bike I decided to keep.doh


I have a set Shimano 600 circa 1989 on my Moulton and despite the 17" wheels the braking is very good.

I think mine were 1986 variants of the 6208, the black finish on the QR differentiates them from the earlier 6207s, the 600 levers were also very nice 8)
I think I'm going to find myself a set but it's going to cost me £££ for some minty ones I reckon!
ratherbeintobago
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Re: Bestest ever bicycle brakes... ?

Post by ratherbeintobago »

simonineaston wrote:
so in terms of raw power rim brakes are as effective as one another regardless of wheel size.
Phew - had me worried there for a moment... !


Well… does it not also depend on the pressure applied to the rim, which is why v’s feel more powerful than cantis?
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