Right to roam Scotland?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
toontra
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Right to roam Scotland?

Postby toontra » 24 Aug 2020, 6:16pm

I was doing a favourite off-road ride in Angus today. I got to a short stretch of tarmac that connects 2 farm tracks that skirts around several cottages. Never had any issues before. There are no gates or signs.
But today 2 ferocious alsations bounded right up to me, snarling and barking, followed by the owner. He said it was his garden and I couldn't continue. I said I'd used this road for 30 years, which he said was impossible. I offered to show him the GPS tracks of those rides (which I could have done) but just kept telling me to back up.
The presence of the dogs made any further discussion impossible so I turned around and had to make a lengthy detour.
Anyone any knowledge of how the right to roam legislation works in these situations?

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Jdsk
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby Jdsk » 24 Aug 2020, 6:24pm


greyingbeard
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby greyingbeard » 24 Aug 2020, 6:33pm

IF someone is threatening to set the dogs on you, call plod. Do let us know how you get on

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geomannie
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby geomannie » 24 Aug 2020, 6:39pm

toontra wrote:I was doing a favourite off-road ride in Angus today. I got to a short stretch of tarmac that connects 2 farm tracks that skirts around several cottages. Never had any issues before. There are no gates or signs.
But today 2 ferocious alsations bounded right up to me, snarling and barking, followed by the owner. He said it was his garden and I couldn't continue. I said I'd used this road for 30 years, which he said was impossible. I offered to show him the GPS tracks of those rides (which I could have done) but just kept telling me to back up.
The presence of the dogs made any further discussion impossible so I turned around and had to make a lengthy detour.
Anyone any knowledge of how the right to roam legislation works in these situations?

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my SM-G973F using hovercraft full of eels.


Gardens are excluded from right to roam. I am sure that having ridden the road for 30 years you have a very clear idea if that is correct. If it's not a garden, you pretty much have a right to use it. Your local council access officer should be able to advise if problems remain.

I have noticed that private signs are springing up on farm roads & drives in recent years. They have no legal force by and large

Can you post a image or location of the section of road in question?
geomannie

toontra
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby toontra » 24 Aug 2020, 6:46pm

Thanks all. Very useful. I'm on holiday so don't have access to a computer for posting images.

The hamlet is called Renmure, just north of Inverkeilor, and my route was northbound from North Mains farm towards Pamphry. The tracks are clearly shown on OS maps.

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Paulatic
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby Paulatic » 24 Aug 2020, 6:47pm

Use a path or track, if there is one, when you are close to a house and keep a sensible distance away if there is no path or track.


He hadn’t a leg to stand on. If it had been me I’d of offered my name and address, told him to study the Access Code and write to me if he felt I was going against it.

https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/
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toontra
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby toontra » 24 Aug 2020, 6:49pm

Paulatic wrote:
Use a path or track, if there is one, when you are close to a house and keep a sensible distance away if there is no path or track.


He hadn’t a leg to stand on. If it had been me I’d of offered my name and address, told him to study the Access Code and write to me if he felt I was going against it.

https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/
Yes - but the dogs! They were salivating on my legs the whole time.

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toontra
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby toontra » 24 Aug 2020, 6:54pm

I tried Angus council but they aren't taking any phone calls at the moment (unless you want to pay for something!).

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Will
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby Will » 24 Aug 2020, 7:02pm

You can contact Angus Council and report it:

https://www.angus.gov.uk/leisure_sport_ ... ess_rights

"If you think access rights have been obstructed, you can contact us via ACCESSLine on 03452 777 778. We will look into the issue, and if appropriate we will seek to have the obstruction removed.

In some cases we may also consider whether a public right of way exists. Public rights of way can exist over land where access rights do not apply."

Will

toontra
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby toontra » 24 Aug 2020, 7:07pm

Thanks Will. That's the number I tried. Just get a message saying most services aren't available at the moment. Worth remembering for when/if normality returns.

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my SM-G973F using hovercraft full of eels.

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Paulatic
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby Paulatic » 24 Aug 2020, 7:08pm

toontra wrote:I tried Angus council but they aren't taking any phone calls at the moment (unless you want to pay for something!).

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my SM-G973F using hovercraft full of eels.

This is your man to contact
ECF07B1C-FC66-452D-9A36-94C4356B5FBB.jpeg
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geomannie
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby geomannie » 24 Aug 2020, 7:17pm

I also think the fact that you have been using the route unhindered for 30 years further establishes this as a right of way. Any proof such as track logs very useful.

You could could also perhaps discover if the property was recently sold by searching https://scotlis.ros.gov.uk/ . Maybe a new dog in a manger.

Cheers
geomannie

Will
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby Will » 24 Aug 2020, 7:29pm

The track doesn't appear on the core paths for that area:

https://www.angus.gov.uk/sites/angus-cm ... ap11_4.pdf

Will

toontra
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby toontra » 24 Aug 2020, 7:38pm

Well done Will. That shows the location clearly. If you zoom in to Renmure, the dotted curved track is the current tarmac road, bypassing the house and garden. At no point on the road do you come within 20 yards of any residential properties.

As you say, not on the map as a designated cycle track, but neither are 95%of the other tracks used freely by cyclists/walkers.

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Will
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby Will » 24 Aug 2020, 7:41pm

You could also try looking to see if there are any planning applications been applied for there in the last few years. There may be plans which show the boundaries of any land that is designated as within the curtilage of the house (i.e. garden). Either he (or a previous owner) may have changed the use of some land that was designated as agricultural (such as paddock) to garden - You're not allowed to do that without planning permission. If he is using land as garden without permission then he hasn't got a leg to stand on (it ain't a garden).

Will