Right to roam Scotland?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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geomannie
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby geomannie » 24 Aug 2020, 7:46pm

Will wrote:The track doesn't appear on the core paths for that area:

https://www.angus.gov.uk/sites/angus-cm ... ap11_4.pdf

Will

That in itself has no bearing as to whether the route is a right of way.
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toontra
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby toontra » 24 Aug 2020, 7:51pm

I've just used geomannie's link and found the property details. It does indeed show the track as being within the curtilage of the residential property called "Renmure" (last sold 2003). As I say, there are no signs or gates (never have been) , just a continuation of the track

Oh well, guess I'll have to start avoiding the area. A shame because it hinders no-one and was probably historically part of the drovers road from Inverkeilor to Brechin.

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geomannie
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby geomannie » 24 Aug 2020, 7:55pm

toontra wrote:I've just used geomannie's link and found the property details. It does indeed show the track as being within the curtilage of the residential property called "Renmure" (last sold 2003). As I say, there are no signs or gates (never have been) , just a continuation of the track

Oh well, guess I'll have to start avoiding the area. A shame because it hinders no-one and was probably historically part of the drovers road from Inverkeilor to Brechin.

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Historically part of the drovers road = right of way IMHO. Also your historical useage.

Still worth contacting the access officer.
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toontra
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby toontra » 24 Aug 2020, 8:01pm

geomannie wrote:
Still worth contacting the access officer.


Thanks. Yes, I think I will, just to satisfy my curiosity.

The guy was pretty offensive and arrogant. That pissed me off more than anything else.


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Paulatic
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby Paulatic » 24 Aug 2020, 8:04pm

If I’m understanding this right then your route is straight along and not the curved dashed bit.
Before they were built this is it?
0078CEB7-8A06-4C8D-933C-568273F083CA.jpeg
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Will
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby Will » 24 Aug 2020, 8:38pm

You can also check out ScotLIS (Scotland's Land Information Service).

Part of the tracks at Renmure appear to come under the property called The Auld Byre:

https://scotlis.ros.gov.uk/property-summary/ANG22189/1

It doesn't show the track as having a different designation as the rest of the property, so this may be what he was talking about (if he was the owner of that property). That property was sold three weeks ago (31st July 2020), so it might just be a new owner throwing his weight about.

The other parts belong to the property called Renmure:

https://scotlis.ros.gov.uk/property-summary/ANG933/1

It shows the other track (in blue) that seems to bypasses the land belonging to The Auld Byre. It may have been built to allow access because access had been denied across the other land.

It will cost you £3 to purchase the title plan (which will also include an explanation of the colours and hatching on the tracks).

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toontra
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby toontra » 24 Aug 2020, 8:48pm

It looks as if he bought the house (Auld Byre) in 2002 then the surround land (Renmure) in 2003, at which point he diverted the track away from the house.

That's why this all seems so ridiculous. The handful of people a year likely to venture this way wouldn't be invading his privacy.


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geomannie
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby geomannie » 25 Aug 2020, 4:59pm

FWIW, this is a summary of a Scottish right of way from Inverclyde Council https://www.inverclyde.gov.uk/planning- ... hts-of-way

If it conects two public places you have been using the route for 30 years then you do have rights. Do enquire further.

Rights of Way

A right of way is a route along which the public have a right of passage. To be a right of way, a route must meet certain conditions. The main ones are that the route must have been used by the public for at least twenty years, it must connect two public places, and it must follow a more or less defined route. Rights of way vary in length from short urban routes to longer traditional routes, such as the old drove roads.

See also
https://www.scotways.com/faq/rights-of- ... ght-of-way
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toontra
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby toontra » 26 Aug 2020, 7:23am

Thanks for the useful links. I do intend to follow this up.

What seems to have happened is that a former farm has been converted to residential. The farm was the centre of interconnecting tracks and paths, presumably with historic roots. I find it puzzling and disappointing that these can be cut off by an individual simply by changing use from agricultural to residential

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Elizabeth_S
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby Elizabeth_S » 26 Aug 2020, 1:35pm

I'm not sure, I think you do have a right to access, I think the curved track was perhaps built as a turning circle for the steading, but it isn't within the curtilage of a house. I poked around a bit in the Angus planning portal, it's fairly clunky but shows the drawings that were used to obtain planning permission. Of course he could be trying to do a land grap, you know occupy the land for so many years, which does happen.
Yesterday I walked passed a steading on a very similar track north from the David Stirling monument, it goes around the garden of the steading but it's perfectly okay to walk or cycle on it and everyone's okay with it.

toontra
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby toontra » 26 Aug 2020, 1:59pm

Thanks Elizabeth. I suspect he's doing as you say and trying to establish privacy by restricting public useage, which explains why he was so insistent that I hadn't used the track before (which of course I have, with the GPS files to prove it).

Today I spoke to a neighbouring cafe that caters for lots of walkers. They have had several reports of aggressive behaviour by this bloke, but as far as anyone knows this is a public right of way.

I'm determined to get to the bottom of this but unfortunately no one is answering phone calls or emails at the moment, including the Angus access officer.

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Elizabeth_S
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby Elizabeth_S » 26 Aug 2020, 2:07pm

Many of the local council officers around here are working from home, so generally it's best to email them with all the details.

toontra
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby toontra » 26 Aug 2020, 2:08pm

Elizabeth_S wrote:Many of the local council officers around here are working from home, so generally it's best to email them with all the details.
Yep - will do. Thanks again for the research


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ambodach
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby ambodach » 26 Aug 2020, 6:17pm

If he is a new owner he may well be ignorant of the law in Scotland. We have had this problem where I live from time to time and the " get orf my land " approach from people from outwith Scotland who have bought property here.

toontra
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Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Postby toontra » 26 Aug 2020, 6:20pm

According to him he's been there for 22 years (the Internet suggests 18). He's definitely Scottish!

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