Women's Gravel/All-Rounder Bike Recommendations...

[gga10an]

I'm looking for a good quality bike that's a bit of an all rounder - road, gravel, daily commute, pannier rack. Budget up to c.£1,000.
My main issue is with reach - I'm a 162cm woman, with fairly long legs but a shorter body/arms so have struggled in the past with the reach on bikes. If anyone has any recommendations I'd be really grateful!

[531colin]

5'3" or thereabouts in old money?
Thats about the height where it starts to become really obvious that shorter folk need something different to taller folk, whether that is wheel size or frame design.
A couple of recent threads which may at least offer a bit of background....https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=140611&p=1525374#p1525374 and https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=140209
The "stack and reach" thread has some Cannondale geometry numbers which show they use a long fork offset and slack head angle on the small bikes; this gets the bars relatively close without bringing the front wheel within kicking distance. Whether they do that on any bikes of the type/budget you want I don't know!

Edit....this? https://www.cannondale.com/en-gb/bikes/road/gravel/topstone/topstone-3?sku=c15871m10lg
Would probably be the "sweet spot" for my money...I would rather have 2 chainwheels than one, and cable rather than hydraulic discs.
But check it against the "Womens" geometry, i don't know what the difference is!

[slowster]

I suspect that a big factor in your past problems with reach has been the ergonomics of STI shifters and - to a lesser extent - the more modern shapes of handlebars designed in expectation of being used with STI shifters. I think that very often problems with reach have little to do with the frame geometry, and a lot to do with STI shifters. The fact that so many shorter people have problems with reach appears to be a very modern phenomenon, correlating with the evolution of STI shifters, the hoods of which have increased in width/bulk and length over recent years.

Compare the following two bikes (Pinnacle Arkose R2 Women's bike 2019 and Kona Rove):



The handlebars of the Arkose are rotated slightly downwards. The bars on the Rove look like they have a shorter reach and are rotated backwards, but also the STI shifter has been mounted so that the flat section of the hoods slopes upwards, rather than the more common horizontal. Edit - The Arkose also has hydraulic brakes, with consequently even longer STI hoods than the Rove.

Differences like that can have a huge impact. If you are going to use STIs, choice of handlebar and the position of the STI shifter on the handlebar is likely to be critical to maximising comfort (or possibly rather minimising discomfort).

However, there is a trade off. If you imagine where your hands would be in the drops on the two bikes, you will see that the effective distance your fingers must reach to brake and operate the shifters is much greater on the Rove than the Pinnacle. A lot of people with small hands - e.g. many women - with STI shifters on that type of (so called 'compact') handlebar complain that they cannot use the brakes and shifters from the drops.

Therefore I suggest that as well as paying close attention to the geometry of bikes which you identify as possible contenders, you also give careful consideration to lever and bar choice and set up.

In my opinion the best solution is to dispense with STI shifters, but most bikes of the type you are considering come with them as standard.

[tim-b]

Hi
The Boardman ADV8.6W may be worth a look (link) they should be accessible (Halfords) and so easy to try-before-you-buy. EDIT changing the handlebar stem is quite literally a 5 minute job if you needed a shorter one. At £700 you've got a few quid for mudguards, luggage, lights and a lock although I'd suggest getting the bike first and not necessarily be restricted to accessories from any one outlet
Regards
tim-b

[531colin]

Just to labour the point even more about these combined brake/gear levers.....
Show me a bike without them....(and I'll show you a Surly Trucker!)
If you are going to ride off road, you need to be able to brake securely from the hoods. Descending on any surface other than tarmac, one of the first things to go wrong is the back wheel locks up. So to get any braking effect at all from the back wheel, you have to get your weight back....bum off the back of the saddle with the pedals horizontal. Unless you are a bit of a gymnast, that rules out braking from the drops....braking from the drops throws your weight forward, and the last thing I want when slithering down some dodgy descent is to have all my weight and braking on the front wheel.
It seems a bit daft to choose a bike based on the levers, but the things are so expensive it doesn't make sense to buy a bike then change the levers.....and apart from anything else, any levers which are compatible with the gears and brakes fitted to the bike are going to be the same as the levers the bike comes with. However its pretty straightforward to change handlebars for ones a different shape, or even simply to move the existing levers on the existing bars, fit a different stem, etc.

[mattsccm]

Should you be considering hydraulic disc brakes, I won't use anything else off road on my best bikes, consider model. Those shown on the top pic are the lower end model which were/are a bit bulky. Other spec ones or SRAM ones suit small hands better.

[531colin]

Should you be considering hydraulic disc brakes, I won't use anything else off road on my best bikes, consider model. Those shown on the top pic are the lower end model which were/are a bit bulky. Other spec ones or SRAM ones suit small hands better.

^^^^^^This is good information, and outside my experience. I'm very happy with cable discs, but mine are BB7 MTB brakes, which I can use because I don't use combined gear/brake levers.

[rotavator]

Do you prefer flat or drop bars? I would go for a flat barred hybrid for a jack of all trades sort of bike, which sounds to me what you are looking for.

[gga10an]

Thank you all, that's really helpful. I do prefer drop bars but that's a good point re the position of sti shifters and maybe a bar set up would lead to greater comfort. Or possibly in-line brake levers in addition to the primary brake lever would give me more safety.
I think it may be a case of tracking down your suggestions and giving them a try for size.
I've also been looking at the Genesis Croix de Fer which someone recommended.

[slowster]

I think it may be a case of tracking down your suggestions and giving them a try for size.

To expand on my comments above, I have a bike with Shimano 105 10 speed STIs. Although there did not seem to be much scope to rotate the levers back on the bars from the position they were installed in by the shop, I found that I was able to move them further up the curve, so much so that the distance from the saddle tip to the hoods reduced by around 20mm. Rotating the bars themselves backwards would reduce that further. Obviously the reach to the hoods is only one variable, and the angle of the hoods is also important. So moving the levers higher on the curve to reduce the reach may not be an option if you need/want the flat top of the hoods on which your hands rest to be level.

Neverthless, that 20mm differnce illustrates why I think that the set up of the bike, including choice of stem length, the choice of bars, and the position of the STIs on the bars, is potentially more important that the relatively smaller variations in frame geometry between many of the bikes you may find yourself considering.

I think that you will find that the reach measurement of most of the frames will be around 370mm, and I suspect the Boardman tim-b linked to above is probably as short as you are likely to find at 365mm.

Therefore taking the time and trouble to get the bike set up to fit you as well as possible is likely to be the most important thing. A bike shop is probably unlikely to be willing to do that for/with you to the extent that you are likely to need (unless you pay for a bike fit as well), especially if buying from a retailer like Halfords.

Even if the bike shop were willing to take time to fit the bike to you and get the optimum saddle, bar and STI position, I would still recommend being prepared to tweak and adjust the set up yourself further still. At the foot of 531Colin's posts above is a link to his guide on bike fit, and I would strongly recommend you read that.

If I were buying the Boardman (and it does seem to be a good fit with your requirements and good value), I would ask that the bar tape were not fitted and would want the steerer tube to have the maximum possible amount of spacers under the stem (typically 30mm max for a carbon steerer plus a 5mm on top of the stem).

That then allows you to experiment with bar height and STI position (use electrical tape to secure the cables to the bars and wear track mitts or gloves while riding with the bars untaped). Once you have the bars and STIs just how you like them, then you fit the bar tape.

Even if the bar tape comes fitted, you may be able to unwind it back to the STIs, adjust their position, and then tape it back up, rather than completely removing and replacing the tape.

If you've not done any of this before it may seem a little daunting, but there's plenty of internet guidance, especially on the Park Tool website, which has good videos, links to some of which are below.

If you don't already have them, you will need allen keys or a suitable multi-tool with them, and a torque wrench (esssential if the steerer tube is carbon fibre, and highly desirible even for clamping metal parts like handlebars and seatposts) - this one from Wiggle gets good reviews.

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/brake-lever-mounting-positioning-drop-bars

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/handlebar-removal-installation-drop-bars

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/stem-removal-installation-threadless

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/handlebar-tape-installation-drop-bars