Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
alexnharvey
Posts: 1439
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:39am

Re: Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

Postby alexnharvey » 7 Jan 2021, 3:49pm

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... 6&start=40

Peachy! wrote:I found out yesterday, but I didn’t want to post anything till I’d actually spoken to Donald. Bob Jackson’s is closing.

I popped by this morning to collect a frame I’d dropped off before Christmas for a respray & Donald confirmed that at the very last minute even with all the financials in place, the actual guy who was supposed to have taken over running the business should have started this week. He didn’t, it’s over.

A sad day for Yorkshire bike building.

I wonder what Tony Woodrup has in mind for the brand now?

KTHSullivan
Posts: 214
Joined: 4 Aug 2017, 1:15pm
Location: Wind Swept Lincolnshire

Re: Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

Postby KTHSullivan » 15 Jan 2021, 3:41pm

Real shame, I was just contemplating getting my BJ "Golden Jubilee" back to them for a respray.
Just remember, when you’re over the hill, you begin to pick up speed. :lol:

pwa
Posts: 13648
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

Postby pwa » 16 Jan 2021, 9:47am

Sadly, the market for high end steel frames is a lot smaller than it used to be. When I see a cyclist coming my way on what might be an interesting bike I watch as it passes, and I have noticed that nice steel frames are becoming a rarity. (I saw a nice Roberts yesterday.) This is very much a sector in decline and I wonder how little will be left in ten years. I guess someone, somewhere will be making bespoke framesets, but at a very high price point.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 8702
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

Postby Bonefishblues » 16 Jan 2021, 10:00am

pwa wrote:Sadly, the market for high end steel frames is a lot smaller than it used to be. When I see a cyclist coming my way on what might be an interesting bike I watch as it passes, and I have noticed that nice steel frames are becoming a rarity. (I saw a nice Roberts yesterday.) This is very much a sector in decline and I wonder how little will be left in ten years. I guess someone, somewhere will be making bespoke framesets, but at a very high price point.

I wonder if that first statement is correct, or whether it's simply that the market has changed - there are now plenty of (super)high-end steel framemakers, and all charging significantly more than BJ used to.

pwa
Posts: 13648
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

Postby pwa » 16 Jan 2021, 10:08am

Bonefishblues wrote:
pwa wrote:Sadly, the market for high end steel frames is a lot smaller than it used to be. When I see a cyclist coming my way on what might be an interesting bike I watch as it passes, and I have noticed that nice steel frames are becoming a rarity. (I saw a nice Roberts yesterday.) This is very much a sector in decline and I wonder how little will be left in ten years. I guess someone, somewhere will be making bespoke framesets, but at a very high price point.

I wonder if that first statement is correct, or whether it's simply that the market has changed - there are now plenty of (super)high-end steel framemakers, and all charging significantly more than BJ used to.

I have noticed, over the last year or two, that I'm seeing fewer and fewer steel frames on nice bikes. They were already a bit niche but that niche still seems to be shrinking. It seems to have reached a point where, if you want bespoke, you are going to have to pay a lot. Affordable and bespoke are not going to happen at the same time anymore. We will still be able to get affordable off-the-peg steel from the Far East (Spa, Thorn, etc) and we will still be able to get very expensive bespoke steel, but nothing in between. Or that is how it looks to me.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 8702
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

Postby Bonefishblues » 16 Jan 2021, 10:12am

pwa wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
pwa wrote:Sadly, the market for high end steel frames is a lot smaller than it used to be. When I see a cyclist coming my way on what might be an interesting bike I watch as it passes, and I have noticed that nice steel frames are becoming a rarity. (I saw a nice Roberts yesterday.) This is very much a sector in decline and I wonder how little will be left in ten years. I guess someone, somewhere will be making bespoke framesets, but at a very high price point.

I wonder if that first statement is correct, or whether it's simply that the market has changed - there are now plenty of (super)high-end steel framemakers, and all charging significantly more than BJ used to.

I have noticed, over the last year or two, that I'm seeing fewer and fewer steel frames on nice bikes. They were already a bit niche but that niche still seems to be shrinking. It seems to have reached a point where, if you want bespoke, you are going to have to pay a lot. Affordable and bespoke are not going to happen at the same time anymore. We will still be able to get affordable off-the-peg steel from the Far East (Spa, Thorn, etc) and we will still be able to get very expensive bespoke steel, but nothing in between. Or that is how it looks to me.

I agree.

peetee
Posts: 2765
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Cornwall

Re: Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

Postby peetee » 16 Jan 2021, 10:50am

pwa wrote:When I see a cyclist coming my way on what might be an interesting bike I watch as it passes, and I have noticed that nice steel frames are becoming a rarity.


Perhaps there are enthusiasts out there keeping them under lock and key, owning many frames and only able to ride one at a time....

:oops:
:mrgreen:
....Guilty as charged, my lord!
Winter had arrived in the land of Kernow. Along with it came wet roads and cool winds.
“Oh, my wheels and coupling rods!” Peetee exclaimed.

fastpedaller
Posts: 2736
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

Postby fastpedaller » 16 Jan 2021, 6:33pm

Is it just a case of those with the money are buying what they perceive as the 'latest' probably carbon?

Bonefishblues
Posts: 8702
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

Postby Bonefishblues » 16 Jan 2021, 6:48pm

fastpedaller wrote:Is it just a case of those with the money are buying what they perceive as the 'latest' probably carbon?

No, I think that those with the real money are increasingly buying bespoke steel. Carbon's increasingly commoditised these days IMHO.

PH
Posts: 9775
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

Postby PH » 16 Jan 2021, 8:10pm

In CJ's review about 15 years ago of one of the Hewitt tourers, he said something along the lines of it giving custom builders a run for their money. That's stuck in my mind because I was at the time eyeing up custom builders and went for a Hewitt instead. I think that's largely the way the it's gone. There's so much decent off the peg stuff available, in all materials, that it has to be something special, or perceived as such, to warrant not buying OTP, and people looking for something special will pay special prices.
Two other factors, which are probably related, are peoples disposable income and their expectation about how long they'll keep a bike. I've had one bike for fifteen years (The aforementioned Hewitt) but the average time I keep one is around six. That's not always as planned, it's just something I might take into consideration before buying something.
I'm a little puzzled by my own reaction the the closing, I'm sad that's happened, yet I've never considered buying one or ever have been likely to do so.

Jamesh
Posts: 1663
Joined: 2 Jan 2017, 5:56pm

Re: Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

Postby Jamesh » 17 Jan 2021, 12:23pm

PH wrote:In CJ's review about 15 years ago of one of the Hewitt tourers, he said something along the lines of it giving custom builders a run for their money. That's stuck in my mind because I was at the time eyeing up custom builders and went for a Hewitt instead. I think that's largely the way the it's gone. There's so much decent off the peg stuff available, in all materials, that it has to be something special, or perceived as such, to warrant not buying OTP, and people looking for something special will pay special prices.
Two other factors, which are probably related, are peoples disposable income and their expectation about how long they'll keep a bike. I've had one bike for fifteen years (The aforementioned Hewitt) but the average time I keep one is around six. That's not always as planned, it's just something I might take into consideration before buying something.
I'm a little puzzled by my own reaction the the closing, I'm sad that's happened, yet I've never considered buying one or ever have been likely to do so.


Hewitt, condor, Enigma all come to mind before BJ not to mention the neo bespoke bike builders.

Cheers James

Ps not forgetting genesis!!!

alexnharvey
Posts: 1439
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:39am

Re: Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

Postby alexnharvey » 18 Jan 2021, 11:56am

Jamesh wrote:
PH wrote:In CJ's review about 15 years ago of one of the Hewitt tourers, he said something along the lines of it giving custom builders a run for their money. That's stuck in my mind because I was at the time eyeing up custom builders and went for a Hewitt instead. I think that's largely the way the it's gone. There's so much decent off the peg stuff available, in all materials, that it has to be something special, or perceived as such, to warrant not buying OTP, and people looking for something special will pay special prices.
Two other factors, which are probably related, are peoples disposable income and their expectation about how long they'll keep a bike. I've had one bike for fifteen years (The aforementioned Hewitt) but the average time I keep one is around six. That's not always as planned, it's just something I might take into consideration before buying something.
I'm a little puzzled by my own reaction the the closing, I'm sad that's happened, yet I've never considered buying one or ever have been likely to do so.


Hewitt, condor, Enigma all come to mind before BJ not to mention the neo bespoke bike builders.

Cheers James

Ps not forgetting genesis!!!


Most of the neo-bespokes seem to charge double to three times what BJ were asking and often more than a Mercian would cost despite some appearing to only having a relatively small portfolio of completed work.

I anticipated seeing BJ increase prices at least 50% in the ill-fated reboot.

slowster
Posts: 1798
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

Postby slowster » 18 Jan 2021, 12:35pm

Bob Jackson was the last manufacturer making what was close to off the peg frames of that type, in particular with 1" threaded steerers for quill stems.

If you think that 1 1/8" threadless steerers and stems are better in every way (and possibly also that discs are similarly better in every way than rim brakes), then you are much less likely to mourn the loss of Bob Jackson.

Similarly if your preferences are strongly influenced by a bike's suitability for touring with fully loaded panniers, I suspect that you would probably prefer the touring frames from Surly, Spa and Thorn to a Bob Jackson. I also suspect heavy/big riders would be likely to prefer those frames, even for unladen use.

If, however, your experience is that a well built steel frame using an appropriate range of narrow tubes, rim brakes and a quill stem in a 1" threaded steerer gives a ride that hits a sweet spot of stiffness and comfort, then Bob Jackson's closure is a major loss.

The problem with custom is that unless the framebuilder is very experienced in building that type of frame, you are taking more of a risk when it comes to them getting the design and choice of tubing etc. right. If I were offered the choice for the same price of a standard Bob Jackson frame in 631 tubing in my size or a custom 953/853 frame from one of the new generation of custom framebuilders, I would take the Bob Jackson, because it is a tried and tested design.

leftpoole
Posts: 1135
Joined: 12 Feb 2007, 9:31am
Location: Thornbury, South Gloucestershire.
Contact:

Re: Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

Postby leftpoole » 18 Jan 2021, 1:51pm

pwa wrote:Sadly, the market for high end steel frames is a lot smaller than it used to be. When I see a cyclist coming my way on what might be an interesting bike I watch as it passes, and I have noticed that nice steel frames are becoming a rarity. (I saw a nice Roberts yesterday.) This is very much a sector in decline and I wonder how little will be left in ten years. I guess someone, somewhere will be making bespoke framesets, but at a very high price point.


All my bikes for 50 years have been and will remain steel. There were 2 exceptions. I bought an aluminium Cannondale and sold within a month. Plus a very early 1994 Giant Cadex-1 week!
Steel will in my opinion never be bettered for a proper ride. All those on Carbon have usually not ridden steel. There are of course exceptions. Carbon is not ecologically friendly. Carbon bikes will deteriorate and fall to bits in around 6-10 years from my investigation into materials used for bike building.
So,,steel is and will always be best, and that is not just my opinion!

Bonefishblues
Posts: 8702
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Bob Jackson's is shutting up - IT IS NOW (sob) !!

Postby Bonefishblues » 18 Jan 2021, 1:56pm

leftpoole wrote:
pwa wrote:Sadly, the market for high end steel frames is a lot smaller than it used to be. When I see a cyclist coming my way on what might be an interesting bike I watch as it passes, and I have noticed that nice steel frames are becoming a rarity. (I saw a nice Roberts yesterday.) This is very much a sector in decline and I wonder how little will be left in ten years. I guess someone, somewhere will be making bespoke framesets, but at a very high price point.


All my bikes for 50 years have been and will remain steel. There were 2 exceptions. I bought an aluminium Cannondale and sold within a month. Plus a very early 1994 Giant Cadex-1 week!
Steel will in my opinion never be bettered for a proper ride. All those on Carbon have usually not ridden steel. There are of course exceptions. Carbon is not ecologically friendly. Carbon bikes will deteriorate and fall to bits in around 6-10 years from my investigation into materials used for bike building.
So,,steel is and will always be best, and that is not just my opinion!

People are building planes from carbon composites though, and I'm sure they're expecting to get a bit longer service before, to paraphrase, the bloody wings fall off :D