Superwheel - how does this work ?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
backnotes
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Joined: 16 Jan 2011, 8:36am

Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby backnotes » 24 Nov 2020, 6:01pm

The Super Wheel patent application is here https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/ ... =PCTBIBLIO hiding in plain sight as an "energy transfer system".

Drawing 7 shows what goes on inside the hub. There seem to be a lot of moving parts that will potentially need lubrication and may wear over time. The moving levers that press on springs attached to the spokes are shown as protruding through slots in the hub. Without some kind of seal or gaiter around each lever, I can see weather and general gunge quickly taking their toll on the insides. It also looks like a recipe for annoying creaks and graunching noises over time.

Buried in the patent application is a statement that the tension of each of the 8 springs ideally needs to be adjusted to tailor the system for riders of different weights. That could be easier said than done.

Missing for me from the website is the straightforward analysis to back up the “30% less effort” claim. Power sensing cranks and a fixed route ridden at a set speed or something like that. I can quite see how the wheel may feel different when you ride it, and as if it is pushing you forward in some circumstances, but I’d like to see the working out of how they measured the claimed power difference. Maybe it is there and I can’t find it.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 24 Nov 2020, 6:03pm

531colin wrote:
james01 wrote:A reasonably intelligent relation of mine asked why they don't put dynohubs on electric bikes so you could charge the battery as you ride along. :?

It amuses me that E bikes have dynamo lighting. (but that may be to do with vehicle lighting regulations)


Why - you really want those lights to carry on when you run out of assistance...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Cowsham
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Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby Cowsham » 24 Nov 2020, 6:39pm

These loop wheels look better and simpler if you want suspension.

https://youtu.be/P5JPB_kKAg8

GrandadGear
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Joined: 17 Dec 2020, 4:30pm

Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby GrandadGear » 17 Dec 2020, 4:59pm

Realise I'm a bit late replying to this but here goes! A few commenters have put this in the perpetual motion bucket (should that be bin?). But the idea of perpetual motion is that once you start the machine it runs forever without putting in any further energy. However, with this device the rider is continually supplying energy to the system. What is suggested (I think) is that the system is storing some of the energy provided by the rider and then returning it, thereby improving efficiency. More of a flywheel effect. As others have suggested I'd like to see some proper testing.

Brucey
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Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby Brucey » 17 Dec 2020, 6:28pm

backnotes wrote:...Missing for me from the website is the straightforward analysis to back up the “30% less effort” claim. Power sensing cranks and a fixed route ridden at a set speed or something like that. I can quite see how the wheel may feel different when you ride it, and as if it is pushing you forward in some circumstances, but I’d like to see the working out of how they measured the claimed power difference. Maybe it is there and I can’t find it.


Another way of looking at it is that if the claims were true, there would have to be at least 30% losses in a standard bike + rider that disappear once the gadget is used. There are only three places where such losses might occur;

1) in a standard transmission
2) in the way that a standard bike handles the bumps in the road
3) in the way that the human machine converts perceived effort to watts of pedal force

There are no claims for 3) ; no mention of any difference in pedalling, except that it is 'less effort'. Re 1) standard transmissions are measurably 90-95% efficient, so there is no scope for a large change in efficiency there. Which just leaves 2). If anything I'd expect a load of extra pivots in the rear wheel and a non-concentric rotation to absorb energy rather than dish it out somehow.

If there really was an effect of any kind (leave alone that magnitude) it ought to be easy to observe and measure.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Cowsham
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Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby Cowsham » 29 Dec 2020, 8:11am

Found this when Googling for duomatic brake hub mentioned on the brakes thread recently to find out what it was but this might be more in keeping with this thread

https://hubstripping.wordpress.com/tag/nuvinci/

Jdsk
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Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby Jdsk » 29 Dec 2020, 10:34am

Flywheels are very interesting.

But I doubt that they have much to offer on HPVs for the same reasons as regenerative electric braking doesn't on eBikes. But I expect that question to be explored repeatedly as more of us experience regenerative electric braking on car-like vehicles.

Jonathan

Cowsham
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Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby Cowsham » 29 Dec 2020, 8:47pm

Jdsk wrote:Flywheels are very interesting.

But I doubt that they have much to offer on HPVs for the same reasons as regenerative electric braking doesn't on eBikes. But I expect that question to be explored repeatedly as more of us experience regenerative electric braking on car-like vehicles.

Jonathan



Actually I saw loads of experimental regenerative braking bike builds on YouTube .