Superwheel - how does this work ?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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Mick F
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Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby Mick F » 20 Nov 2020, 3:45pm

Talking of a reasonably intelligent person........................ off topic, but similar perhaps?

Some you know that we have an African Grey parrot.
Over the years - she's 35 now - she's lain eggs.

The number of "reasonably intelligent" people who have asked me if I was going to hatch the eggs, I have lost count!
Why can't "reasonably intelligent" people work out that the parrot needs her eggs to be fertilised first. :lol:
Parrot Eggs.JPG
Mick F. Cornwall

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby Brucey » 20 Nov 2020, 3:54pm

on a smooth road this can't possibly do anything useful; another perpetual motion machine. However roads are not smooth and on a bumpy road there is plenty of redundant work being done.

If you have a suspension system it becomes quite clear that there is energy being dissipated in dampers. Yet with suspension you can go faster than without (and before you think "I don't have suspension", you ride pneumatic tyres don't you...?). So most of us ride round on tyres which absorb between about 12 and 30 W of power each (at a standardised load/speed) thus most of us are putting at least twice this amount of energy into our tyres/backside and this only increases on a bumpier road. Most dampers work differently on the bump and rebound strokes so when the suspension is working hard this actually changes the ride height slightly.

So on the face of it this invention is yet another nonsense idea and it is almost certainly oversold (30% more efficient etc) but I concede the possibility that this might turn some of the otherwise 'wasted' energy involved in bumps into forward motion instead.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Brucey
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Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby Brucey » 20 Nov 2020, 3:56pm

Mick F wrote:Talking of a reasonably intelligent person........................ off topic, but similar perhaps?

Some you know that we have an African Grey parrot.
Over the years - she's 35 now - she's lain eggs.

The number of "reasonably intelligent" people who have asked me if I was going to hatch the eggs, I have lost count!
Why can't "reasonably intelligent" people work out that the parrot needs her eggs to be fertilised first. :lol:
Parrot Eggs.JPG


some egg-laying reptiles retain the option for the females to self-fertilize their eggs in the event that there is no male to mate with. I don't know if any birds are known to do this.

[edit: this is called "parthenogenesis". According to the Wikipedia article on the topic, it can sometimes occur in birds. IIRC this was a plot point at least one of the Jurassic Park movies.]

cheers
Last edited by Brucey on 20 Nov 2020, 7:37pm, edited 1 time in total.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

emleyman
Posts: 125
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Location: W Yorks.

Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby emleyman » 20 Nov 2020, 5:05pm

I can see that some wasted energy from vertical motion could be turned into spring energy to propel the bike forwards, but what impact will this superwheel have on brakes?
if the wheel is bouncing up and down relative to the axle then rim brakes won't work. They won't contact the same area if the rim moves up or down so would either hit the tyre or miss the rim completely

hamster
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Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby hamster » 20 Nov 2020, 5:16pm

rjb wrote:Someone tried a wind powered cart where the wind mill charged a battery driving an electric motor. Total failure - Newton's law of conservation of energy would preclude this from working.


Disagree - it would need a strong wind to make the thing move probably, but it doesn't stop it working. People have made practicable wind-turbine powered boats. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzGCYaJbf0A
And sailing boats can readily sail faster than the true windspeed, even upwind. Just have a look at current America's Cup boats - 50mph is not uncommon, in wind speeds less than half that. See this video - look how smooth the water is and how those chase boats have dirty great engines and are hammering to keep up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIKjSJrAr_M

fastpedaller
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Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby fastpedaller » 20 Nov 2020, 6:45pm

Mick F wrote:Talking of a reasonably intelligent person........................ off topic, but similar perhaps?

Some you know that we have an African Grey parrot.
Over the years - she's 35 now - she's lain eggs.

The number of "reasonably intelligent" people who have asked me if I was going to hatch the eggs, I have lost count!
Why can't "reasonably intelligent" people work out that the parrot needs her eggs to be fertilised first. :lol:
Parrot Eggs.JPG


Could make an omlette?

gazza_d
Posts: 205
Joined: 30 Oct 2016, 8:20am

Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby gazza_d » 20 Nov 2020, 8:29pm

Badly would be my guess

As Scotty would say "ye canna change the laws o'physics capt'n"
Inventor is either very naive or a fraud

mig
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Joined: 19 Oct 2011, 9:39pm

Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby mig » 20 Nov 2020, 10:43pm

looks...er.....heavy!! and tricky to replace a rim.

so on a smooth incline it's merely dead weight i take it.

soapbox
Posts: 112
Joined: 27 Jun 2009, 12:20am

Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby soapbox » 21 Nov 2020, 7:47am

axel_knutt wrote:
james01 wrote:A reasonably intelligent relation of mine asked why they don't put dynohubs on electric bikes so you could charge the battery as you ride along. :?
I invented that scheme for my go-kart when I was about eight. I had the nagging feeling it wouldn't work, but couldn't quite put my finger on why at that age.

soapbox wrote:I'd consider myself a reasonably intelligent person, with a distant background in mechanical engineering, but I wouldn't know the answer to that question because like many people, electricity is something that I've never been interested in and just don't understand.

The answer has nothing to do with electricity, and everything to do with the fact that all perpetual motion machines don't and can't work, regardless of whether they're electrical, mechanical, or any other ical.


Ah... so a dynohub could make a contribution towards recharging the battery, in the same way that a running car engine (don't get technical on me here!) tops up a car battery? I was aware of the myth of perpetual motion.

Boring_Username
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Joined: 2 Mar 2017, 2:38pm

Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby Boring_Username » 21 Nov 2020, 9:15am

On the Youtube video in the link, you can see the springs compress when they are at about 12 o'clock on the wheel. That suggests that the force compressing them is parallel to the ground, not perpendicular to it. So it's not weight that is doing the work to compress them, it's your legs exerting force on the pedals

Jdsk
Posts: 3774
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby Jdsk » 21 Nov 2020, 9:36am

Mick F wrote:Talking of a reasonably intelligent person........................ off topic, but similar perhaps?

Some you know that we have an African Grey parrot.
Over the years - she's 35 now - she's lain eggs.

The number of "reasonably intelligent" people who have asked me if I was going to hatch the eggs, I have lost count!
Why can't "reasonably intelligent" people work out that the parrot needs her eggs to be fertilised first.

Brucey wrote:some egg-laying reptiles retain the option for the females to self-fertilize their eggs in the event that there is no male to mate with. I don't know if any birds are known to do this.

[edit: this is called "parthenogenesis". According to the Wikipedia article on the topic, it can sometimes occur in birds. IIRC this was a plot point at least one of the Jurassic Park movies.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis#Birds

"Parthenogenesis in birds: a review"
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29559496/

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 21 Nov 2020, 9:43am, edited 1 time in total.

Jdsk
Posts: 3774
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby Jdsk » 21 Nov 2020, 9:41am

Most of it's covered above, but a quick checklist:
1 The date.
2 PMM where the proponent is conning you.
3 PMM where the proponent is conning themselves.
4 When the proponent cites a learned body see if the learned body mentions them.
5 Hidden components and nonclosed systems.
6 Language around force, energy, power that mixes them up. See also efficiency.

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 21 Nov 2020, 5:25pm, edited 2 times in total.

Jdsk
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Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby Jdsk » 21 Nov 2020, 9:44am

emleyman wrote:I can see that some wasted energy from vertical motion could be turned into spring energy to propel the bike forwards...

Brucey wrote:So on the face of it this invention is yet another nonsense idea and it is almost certainly oversold (30% more efficient etc) but I concede the possibility that this might turn some of the otherwise 'wasted' energy involved in bumps into forward motion instead.


My first thought was that it might use vertical pumping as in some scooters. But I can't see any in the video.

Jonathan

Last edited by Jdsk on 21 Nov 2020, 10:00am, edited 1 time in total.

Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby Jdsk » 21 Nov 2020, 9:55am

hamster wrote:
rjb wrote:Someone tried a wind powered cart where the wind mill charged a battery driving an electric motor. Total failure - Newton's law of conservation of energy would preclude this from working.

Disagree - it would need a strong wind to make the thing move probably, but it doesn't stop it working. People have made practicable wind-turbine powered boats.
And sailing boats can readily sail faster than the true windspeed, even upwind. Just have a look at current America's Cup boats - 50mph is not uncommon, in wind speeds less than half that. See this video - look how smooth the water is and how those chase boats have dirty great engines and are hammering to keep up.

IIRC The first edition of Richard's Bicycle Book mentioned people cycling with sails on their backs, probably in the Netherlands: was that a joke?

Jonathan

PS:
rjb wrote:Someone tried a wind powered cart where the wind mill charged a battery driving an electric motor. Total failure - Newton's law of conservation of energy would preclude this from working.

Newton had no concept of conservation of energy. Whether he had any concept of energy is debatable. The relevant laws are those of thermodynamics, with conservation of energy sitting in the First.


Cowsham
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Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Superwheel - how does this work ?

Postby Cowsham » 21 Nov 2020, 6:11pm

hamster wrote:
rjb wrote:Someone tried a wind powered cart where the wind mill charged a battery driving an electric motor. Total failure - Newton's law of conservation of energy would preclude this from working.


Disagree - it would need a strong wind to make the thing move probably, but it doesn't stop it working. People have made practicable wind-turbine powered boats. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzGCYaJbf0A
And sailing boats can readily sail faster than the true windspeed, even upwind. Just have a look at current America's Cup boats - 50mph is not uncommon, in wind speeds less than half that. See this video - look how smooth the water is and how those chase boats have dirty great engines and are hammering to keep up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIKjSJrAr_M


I thought this was going to be about Magnus effect -- here's a wee video of what that's about.
https://youtu.be/EZoE_BKizxI