Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
mumbojumbo
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby mumbojumbo » 21 Dec 2020, 6:00pm

You are right-taking out insurance is a form of saving.I have never had a bike stolen over 40 years and have probably saved several thousands-certainly enough to make bike ownership effectively free.With insurance the low risk (careful) subsidise the higher risk(careless)

PH
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby PH » 21 Dec 2020, 6:15pm

Vorpal wrote:Lastly, there are various bike hangers and things that you buy that would minimise the space a bike takes up indoors. It may be worth looking at those, even if you think you don't have space. For example given an easy way to do it, could you use the ceiling in an entry area or bedroom?

This. Unless there's a reason other than space for not bringing it indoors, winding stairs, landlord terms, housemates, something else, I'd look for a creative solution to do so. I currently have three bikes in a floorspace of 90 X 110cm, at one time I had a bike in a wardrobe, and when I lived in a small studio flat for a while, two bikes were under the bed, raised to exactly the right height to wheel them under.
It's the leaving it in the same place that would concern me, is a thief knows you're doing this they could pick their time and there isn't much you could do to prevent that. It isn't only theft, I had a bike so badly damaged I'd have preferred they'd stolen it, the excellent locks were still intact. Even if you find a policy to cover that risk, they'd be unlikely to renew after a claim. You've pretty much described the easiest and most profitable of bikes to sell on, modern and valuable enough to get a decent price, but not so unusual as to make it "hot".
Sorry to sound so negative, it's made me feel negative writing it, I wish you luck, but it isn't something I'd consider doing.

PH
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby PH » 21 Dec 2020, 6:24pm

mumbojumbo wrote:You are right-taking out insurance is a form of saving.I have never had a bike stolen over 40 years and have probably saved several thousands-certainly enough to make bike ownership effectively free.With insurance the low risk (careful) subsidise the higher risk(careless)

It's a risk and a personal choice, there is no right or wrong to it, it isn't saving because you can't know the return.
My claim this year was equivalent to almost twenty years of premiums. I've had this policy for four year, so if I don't have another claim in the next sixteen, I've broken even, so that's 16 years cover for nothing. I'm glad you're so confident that you'll never need to claim, and it doesn't just cover theft, are you going to reclassify yourself as careless if you have any incident where you could have claimed for. Do you really think only careless people have things stolen or damaged?
For myself, it's not news, I carelessly rode into the back of a car... believe me, I'll try not to do that again, but I wouldn't guarantee it.

PH
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby PH » 21 Dec 2020, 6:33pm

simonineaston wrote: 2) insurance companies being what they are, if a claim is made, the expected value of the item is seldom paid out 3) in worst cases, the company will find a reason not to pay out anything 4) having claimed (and regardless whether paying what the insured expects) the premiums will inevitably increase, sometimes to the point of being unaffordable.

This wasn't my experience. The policy is new for old, I obtained a damage report (Which the insurers paid for) a quote from the bikes supplier (Thorn) and it was in my bank account a week later without any discussion on the amounts. I was braced for a hike in the premium, but have just renewed for a similar amount (+2%) to previously.
the point about people taking less care when they are insured works both ways. Plenty of posters on here will tell you they won't leave their bike out of sight, or they have an old cheapie for such trips, neither work for my use and cycling. I take reasonable precautions, it's still an inconvenience and there's an excess to pay, but I don't fret about it like many.

Mike Sales
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby Mike Sales » 21 Dec 2020, 7:01pm

PH wrote: I've had this policy for four year, so if I don't have another claim in the next sixteen, I've broken even, so that's 16 years cover for nothing.


I have had an average of four or five bikes for perhaps thirty years. None have been stolen or damaged, or insured. I don't know how much I would have paid in premiums to gain "peace of mind." I think I am many quids in though.
If I had handed X pounds to an insurance company, anything they did not pay out to less careful cyclists would have gone in profits and bonuses to shady characters like Arron Banks.

PH
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby PH » 21 Dec 2020, 7:48pm

Mike Sales wrote:
PH wrote: I've had this policy for four year, so if I don't have another claim in the next sixteen, I've broken even, so that's 16 years cover for nothing.

I have had an average of four or five bikes for perhaps thirty years.

Did you miss the first half dozen words of my post?
It's a risk and a personal choice,

Take the risk if you like, I'm not arguing that you don't, that more people pay than claim is so obvious I didn't think it worth saying, that's the business model, there'd be no insurance companies if that wasn't the case.
I'm saying if you think there is no risk, or that you think there's no way you could possibly suffer a loss, then you're no less a fool than anyone paying out the premiums and assuming at some point they'll get them back. If you say you're happy to accept that risk, then that's no one's business but your own. Again, I disagree with any idea that it's only the careless who claim, it's often a simplistic form of victim blaming.

Mike Sales
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby Mike Sales » 21 Dec 2020, 8:05pm

PH wrote:Did you miss the first half dozen words of my post?
It's a risk and a personal choice,


Not at all. I was merely contrasting my own experience.
It seems as if I judged the odds correctly.
You only mention accident risk, but many people, including the O.P., insure against theft. I am lucky enough to be able to guard very well against this.
I see insurance for items I can afford to replace as a way of lending money to insurance companies at zero interest, at best.

Oldjohnw
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby Oldjohnw » 21 Dec 2020, 8:15pm

My insurance adds about £30 to my household policy. I'd need to pay for many more decades to save £1000s.
John

PH
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby PH » 21 Dec 2020, 8:56pm

Mike Sales wrote:It seems as if I judged the odds correctly.

The point is, at the start of those years you couldn't know that. - EDIT no you probably think you could and it's impossible to argue with such divinity
EDIT EDIT - Didn't you just write this on another thread a couple of hours ago?
I was riding my laden Galaxy with a nice tail wind. I rested the heels of my hands carelessly on the tops. I hit an unseen pothole and my hands shot forwards off the bars.

The only thing putting you on the right side of the profit & loss account is luck

Lookrider
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby Lookrider » 21 Dec 2020, 9:39pm

20201221_213454.jpg
Although this is my garage...it does show you can put bikes up the wall out of the way
Cyril Haearn wrote:How high are the ceilings? Is there really not space to hang it up inside? Or put it on top of a cabinet or shelves at shoulder height?
My ceilings are about 240 cm, that makes a lot of unused air space
I have XX m2 floor space, and YY m3 air space

I used to remove my front wheel, then I realised I did not need to, I could just tilt the machine

AndyK
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby AndyK » 21 Dec 2020, 9:59pm

Bikmo cycle insurance policy covers both "theft from your home" and "theft away from your home" provided that "the cycle is secured through the frame by an approved lock to an immovable object". No mention of time limits. For a bike valued at more than £250, they define an "approved lock" as one that's rated Sold Secure Gold. They also provide a definition of "immovable object" near the start.
https://bikmo.com/documents/uk-ride-policy-wording/

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horizon
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby horizon » 21 Dec 2020, 10:06pm

PH wrote:It's a risk and a personal choice, there is no right or wrong to it,


I agree, albeit a difficult one. The OP has described the absolute worst of circumstances to alleviate what is a perennial problem. Even after 140 years of bicycle ownership we still haven't really solved this paradox that a bicycle cannot stay on the street but cannot always come indoors. I had to stay at dozens of different B and Bs and hotels duing the course of my work and I have very few memories of good, straightforward, secure overnight storage. Even eventually getting a folder wasn't a 100% guarantee (third floor, no lift etc)

So yes, the OP has got choices but I don't think any of them is a runaway winner.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher

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horizon
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby horizon » 21 Dec 2020, 10:24pm

AndyK wrote:Bikmo cycle insurance policy covers both "theft from your home" and "theft away from your home" provided that "the cycle is secured through the frame by an approved lock to an immovable object". No mention of time limits. For a bike valued at more than £250, they define an "approved lock" as one that's rated Sold Secure Gold. They also provide a definition of "immovable object" near the start.
https://bikmo.com/documents/uk-ride-policy-wording/


I looked at a quote and it came out as about £12 per month for a £1900 bike and a lot of cover (including public liability). That was for Cornwall but still only about £16.00 for Hackney. I don't think that is too bad if I've got it right.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher

Oldjohnw
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby Oldjohnw » 21 Dec 2020, 11:27pm

I've just checked and I paid £176 last year for combined fully comp buildings and contents insurance including a £2,500 e-bike. Accidental damage, legal services, home emergency and public liability included.

Not thousands and not even hundreds.
John

mumbojumbo
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby mumbojumbo » 22 Dec 2020, 5:38am

Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours
Postby PH » 21 Dec 2020, 6:24pm

mumbojumbo wrote:
You are right-taking out insurance is a form of saving.I have never had a bike stolen over 40 years and have probably saved several thousands-certainly enough to make bike ownership effectively free.With insurance the low risk (careful) subsidise the higher risk(careless)

It's a risk and a personal choice, there is no right or wrong to it, it isn't saving because you can't know the return.
My claim this year was equivalent to almost twenty years of premiums. I've had this policy for four year, so if I don't have another claim in the next sixteen, I've broken even, so that's 16 years cover for nothing. I'm glad you're so confident that you'll never need to claim, and it doesn't just cover theft, are you going to reclassify yourself as careless if you have any incident where you could have claimed for. Do you really think only careless people have things stolen or damaged?
For myself, it's not news, I carelessly rode into the back of a car... believe me, I'll try not to do that again, but I wouldn't guarantee it.

You may not regard it as saving but thats the view of the industry.I did not say only careless people suffer loss but there is correlation between the two variables,also recognised by ABI I am confident that my accumulated savings will exceed value of losses and never have indignoty of making a claim with all the bureaucracy etc that follows eg not using a lock with BSS 45638 standards in a month with an r!
https://www.abi.org.uk/