Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
mumbojumbo
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby mumbojumbo » 27 Dec 2020, 5:32pm

A good lock weighs 2kg or 4lb.Cyclists buy expensive bikes,to reduce the weight and then carry a heavy lock.Why not buy a cheaper bike and accept the risk of theft.It is like people who put bars on windows to ward off burglars,meaning escape from fire is impeded.

AndyK
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby AndyK » 27 Dec 2020, 5:38pm

helenh wrote:
AndyK wrote:Bikmo cycle insurance policy covers both "theft from your home" and "theft away from your home" provided that "the cycle is secured through the frame by an approved lock to an immovable object". No mention of time limits. For a bike valued at more than £250, they define an "approved lock" as one that's rated Sold Secure Gold. They also provide a definition of "immovable object" near the start.
https://bikmo.com/documents/uk-ride-policy-wording/


Thanks for responding with an actual policy suggestion! FWIW, I found a time limit under 'abandonment' ([we will not cover theft...] "When a cycle is left in a location which is not your home for more than 24 consecutive hours") - from the policies I've looked at I think this is basically a sly way of putting in a time limit on any theft not carried out via forced entry (i.e. taking the bike off the street). But 24 hours is definitely better than 12 hours! Thanks again!

You're welcome. I've just remembered another one that might possibly fit the bill - Laka. Their policy seems to treat you the same whether the bike is at home or not, the sole condition being that it's "locked through the frame, to an immovable object, with a Sold Secure Gold Lock". However read the details carefully as Laka has an unusual insurance model - the premiums can go up and down month by month, within a pre-defined limit, depending on how many other customers have claimed. And it's best to check with the insurer about your particular case before signing up.
https://cdn.laka.co.uk/assets/v1-4/Laka ... ording.pdf
https://laka.co/gb/

Jdsk
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby Jdsk » 27 Dec 2020, 5:40pm

Laka: that is a very interesting model.

Thanks

Jonathan

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horizon
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby horizon » 27 Dec 2020, 5:47pm

I think there is definitely something afoot in the bike insurance world. I would say improved locks and digitalisation have created a new field for the insurers. My recollection of bike insurance in the past is that you would be paying basically to replace the bike in a short period of time as bike theft was endemic. Arranging insurance used to need manpower: now it is atoms in a computer somewhere with the algorithm doing all the work.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby Cyril Haearn » 27 Dec 2020, 5:49pm

mumbojumbo wrote:A good lock weighs 2kg or 4lb.Cyclists buy expensive bikes,to reduce the weight and then carry a heavy lock.Why not buy a cheaper bike and accept the risk of theft.It is like people who put bars on windows to ward off burglars,meaning escape from fire is impeded.

Makes sense, get a cycle 3 kg lighter, then the whole thing is cycle, lock, rider, luggage weighs 1 kg less :wink:
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AndyK
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby AndyK » 27 Dec 2020, 5:54pm

Jdsk wrote:Laka: that is a very interesting model.

Thanks

Jonathan

It is interesting, but one thing that bothers me about them:

They put you into a "pool" of cyclists. If one member of that pool makes a claim, the rest of the pool pays for it. Fair enough so far, but what they don't really explain anywhere as far as I can see is, how big is each pool? How do they decide who goes into which pool? If some members of a pool turn out to be much higher-risk than others, do they get reallocated to a different pool? And if not, does that mean that (say) the cautious 95% of a pool's members might be paying out repeatedly for the careless 5% who keep losing their bikes?

With a normal insurance model it's in the insurer's interest to make sure that higher-risk individuals pay higher premiums or are avoided altogether; here, as Laka gets paid a percentage of the money changing hands, you could argue that there's no need for them to care. The more claims get made, the more income they make. But perhaps I'm just an old cynic.

AndyK
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby AndyK » 27 Dec 2020, 5:57pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:Could you really not store the cycle inside the dwelling, per suggestions above?

I think you already got a very clear "nope" on that. But do keep asking, maybe the answer will change. :wink:

PH
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby PH » 27 Dec 2020, 5:58pm

mumbojumbo wrote:A good lock weighs 2kg or 4lb.

Sold Secure Gold locks start at around 1kg and there's a huge choice between 1 - 1.5kg. There's various lists if you search for them. Of course not all SS rated locks are equal, but they all conform the an insurers requirements. As already suggested upthread, as this is a bike parking in the same place each night, there may be the possibility to leave the lock in place, in which case it's weight is irrelevant.

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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby PH » 27 Dec 2020, 6:01pm

AndyK wrote:You're welcome. I've just remembered another one that might possibly fit the bill - Laka. Their policy seems to treat you the same whether the bike is at home or not, the sole condition being that it's "locked through the frame, to an immovable object, with a Sold Secure Gold Lock".

I hope the OP comes back after comparing quotes.
I tried Laka, even the lower end of the band they offered me was 30% dearer than I pay with TSB.

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horizon
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby horizon » 27 Dec 2020, 7:26pm

AndyK wrote:It is interesting, but one thing that bothers me about them:
They put you into a "pool" of cyclists. If one member of that pool makes a claim, the rest of the pool pays for it.

Which is how insurance works, except there is usually only one "pool".

And if not, does that mean that (say) the cautious 95% of a pool's members might be paying out repeatedly for the careless 5% who keep losing their bikes?


AIUI, there is no cautious or careless. The insurer demands that you keep your bike either locked up indoors or locked outside to an immovable object with a (very good quality) specified lock. End of. The insurer isn't offering to insure your bike against theft per se: they are offering to insure your bike if stolen in exceptional cirumstances, those normally in fact put in place by very cautious people. In fact, bar standing over your bike all night and day, I don't see what else you could do to make it more secure.

This is why I'm normally sceptical about insurance: what they demand is enough to make sure you (and they) never suffer a loss. I think they have twigged and realise that they can now offer reasonable premiums and still make a tidy profit.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher

helenh
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby helenh » 28 Dec 2020, 4:34pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:Could you really not store the cycle inside the dwelling, per suggestions above?


No, I really can't. I live in a rented flat (no installing racks) with very little room to move - one winding staircase + furniture on the lower floor, or a second winding staircase (and carpet) into bedrooms. I did it once when the bike was new and there's no way I'd be able to do it regularly without scraping walls and adding 5-10 minutes of manouevring to each journey, plus all the dirt a bike inevitably brings in. It's a hard no on this one.

De Sisti
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby De Sisti » 28 Dec 2020, 6:51pm

helenh wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:Could you really not store the cycle inside the dwelling, per suggestions above?


No, I really can't. I live in a rented flat (no installing racks) with very little room to move - one winding staircase + furniture on the lower floor, or a second winding staircase (and carpet) into bedrooms. I did it once when the bike was new and there's no way I'd be able to do it regularly without scraping walls and adding 5-10 minutes of manouevring to each journey, plus all the dirt a bike inevitably brings in. It's a hard no on this one.

Just take the wheels off and rest the frame (upside down) on it's saddle and handlebars against a wall.
That should reduce the footprint of the bike. The wheels could then be placed against the frame. :!:

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby Cyril Haearn » 28 Dec 2020, 7:21pm

I think she explained it well, imagine climbing a narrow spiral staircase, that is hard enough without carrying anything
Removing and refitting the wheels would be too much trouble, cost, wear
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horizon
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby horizon » 28 Dec 2020, 7:57pm

Yes, whatever the OP can or is willing to do or not, it has focussed the thread onto a discussion about relevant insurance for leaving a bike outside overnight. I think that's been very useful.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher

Psamathe
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Re: Insurance against theft - overnight/more than 12 hours

Postby Psamathe » 28 Dec 2020, 8:30pm

For me there are several aspects to bike theft/insurance
    Financial (losing an expensive bit of kit)
    Transport (not having a bike when you need one

I'd assume insurance wont cover stolen bike after stolen bike after stolen bike. And if one gets stolen from outside your house then chances are its replacement stored the same way will follow the same destiny.

But also the aspect is if you're using the bike for transport then suddenly you come down in the morning to find no bike and no easy way to get to work on time, needing to report the theft to authorities, etc., etc.

I think this forum can be very useful when people make suggestions supposedly not directly answering the specifically asked question but rather raising other aspects and possible options to "sidestep" the problem. OP might have to read through a couple of pages of thoughts not possible in her circumstances but that's a lot less work than making an insurance claim, reporting a theft, getting money, buying replacement, etc. And those "sidestepping" alternative strategies might help somebody else using the forum search.

Ian