Tier 4 exercise limits

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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simonineaston
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby simonineaston » 20 Dec 2020, 12:04pm

It's some indication of the slow way that changes emerge, the detail concerning them and the evolution of measures to deal with them, that the first sign of the new strain here in the UK, was spotted back in September, around the time seasonal holiday traffic raised numbers returning from Spain... I read that RNA virus types mutate constantly, along the lines of a letter copied by miriads of typists would - I know if I were asked to contribute, my copies would be full of variants!! :roll:
(rides: Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)

Carlton green
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby Carlton green » 20 Dec 2020, 12:32pm

Tompsk wrote:Just had a look at:

gov.uk/guidance/tier-4-stay-at-home

It says you can exercise outside but must stay local. Wondering what would constitute as 'local' to make my exercise legitimate?

I'm not trying to push the bondaries to breaking point but wonder if being more than X miles from home will be considered outside the rules. There are plenty of varied road and tracks within 3 miles of me (ymmv) so perhaps that is one definition? On the other hand perhaps 'out for an hour' (wherever that takes you) could be another definition for 'local'?


Like a lot of things in these current times one’s best first answer lies within what’s intended by the rule or ‘guidance’ - it’s not necessarily the same view that the first Constable you might meet has but spare a kind thought for him or her in all the current difficulties. To me staying local isn’t just about miles it’s about community and the services nearest to you. If you happen to live in the countryside local might mean the (say) five mile radius between the centre of the communal services (shops, doctor, primary school and the like) that can effectively serve your daily needs. However if you lived in a more densely populated area then the distance to any community hub would be reduced, perhaps to (say) two miles. In the rural area you’re unlikely to meet anyone much so local can be a bit bigger but in the urban areas that’s less true.

So keeping local is, to my mind, about containing infections within geographical communities and impeding its spread to both adjacent and other communities - so try not to mix with or be a link to other communities. I’m afraid it’s about using ‘common sense’ and accepting that ‘just because you can do something doesn’t mean that you should’. I can’t blame anyone from being tempted though or for very carefully going just over the perceived community boundaries; no one expects to have an accident whilst out, or to inadvertently be a carrier of Covid in some way or to even contract it whilst out ... but such things still do happen.

wjhall
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby wjhall » 20 Dec 2020, 3:11pm

The regulations related to Tier 4 do appear to have been published, as SI 2020 No. 1611 coming into force today. (1)

We just dropped to tier 2, so someone else can read and explain the Tier 4 regs to us. I am trying to work up the energy to read the tier 2 regulations. I made the mistake of reading the guidance on the government website, which is very complicated. It probably is simpler to read the regulations for deciding what to to do yourself. For things like the mystery of why leisure centres are allowed to open but not, according the guidance, allowed to do most of the things they might open for, the decision is the centre's, not yours, so no use fretting about it.

The government does seem to be reducing the lag between publishing guidance, and publishing regulations. The differences between the two are, as suggested in other people's posts, probably because drafting regulations to do what the guidance writer wants is not always easy or desirable.

The revised tier allocations starting during this past week were SI 2020 No. 1572.

(1) https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/202 ... 611_en.pdf
Last edited by wjhall on 20 Dec 2020, 4:30pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jdsk
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby Jdsk » 20 Dec 2020, 4:05pm

Thanks for the link.

Jonathan

Boring_Username
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby Boring_Username » 20 Dec 2020, 4:20pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
Boring_Username wrote:One big difference from the Spring lockdown is that we now know the risk of infection from two strangers in brief proximity is very low indoors (e.g. passing in a shop), and essentially zero outdoors (e.g. passing along a road).


Except with the new variant perhaps we don't know this. :(


Fair comment

Stevek76
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby Stevek76 » 20 Dec 2020, 11:52pm

wjhall wrote:The regulations related to Tier 4 do appear to have been published, as SI 2020 No. 1611 coming into force today. (1)



4 or 5 minutes before coming into force :roll:

Looking through that then tier 4 is as November really for exercise. May leave home to take exercise alone, with household (inc linked) or, and this is only in public outdoor places, with one other from another household. Also visiting a public outdoor place for 'open air recreation' is still allowed, same mixing limits as exercise.

Boring_Username wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
Boring_Username wrote:One big difference from the Spring lockdown is that we now know the risk of infection from two strangers in brief proximity is very low indoors (e.g. passing in a shop), and essentially zero outdoors (e.g. passing along a road).


Except with the new variant perhaps we don't know this. :(


Fair comment


We don't know much at all really, even the suggestion that it is 70% more transmissible has been asterisked with a 'considerably uncertainty' and has been met with scepticism from experts on the continent. There is some suspicion that it's been talked up a bit to provide cover for the u-turn on xmas. Of course these countries have had to put in precautionary travel/goods bans regardless so that may well have backfired if it was. :?

Eitherway, 70% more on essentially zero is still really essentially zero.

thirdcrank
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby thirdcrank » 21 Dec 2020, 6:39am

Tompsk wrote:Just had a look at:

gov.uk/guidance/tier-4-stay-at-home

It says you can exercise outside but must stay local. Wondering what would constitute as 'local' to make my exercise legitimate?

I'm not trying to push the bondaries to breaking point but wonder if being more than X miles from home will be considered outside the rules. There are plenty of varied road and tracks within 3 miles of me (ymmv) so perhaps that is one definition? On the other hand perhaps 'out for an hour' (wherever that takes you) could be another definition for 'local'?


As others have said/ impled in one way or another, the bit about staying local isn't explicitly included in the regs.

This the general lockdown bit ie what keeps you at home except when you can go out:-

“SCHEDULE 3A Regulation 8(4)(g)

Tier 4 restrictions

PART 1

Restrictions on movement

Restrictions on leaving home

1.—(1) No person who lives in the Tier 4 area may leave or be outside of the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.


With lots of twiddly bits about numbers of people which I have edited out, these are the reasonable exceptions covering exercise and outdoor recreation

(c) to take exercise outside—

(d) to visit a public outdoor place for the purposes of open air recreation—


I cannot see anything which limits the length, amount, duration etc., of exercise. (That's not necessarily definitive.) There's not even a "reasonable" in there.

Incidentally, I take this to mean that the growing list of "reasonable excuses" to be outside home is not exclusive:-

(2) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (1)—
(a) the circumstances in which a person has a reasonable excuse include where one of the exceptions set out in paragraph 2 applies
(My emphasis.)

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Ride-sleep-repeat
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby Ride-sleep-repeat » 21 Dec 2020, 12:55pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
Boring_Username wrote:One big difference from the Spring lockdown is that we now know the risk of infection from two strangers in brief proximity is very low indoors (e.g. passing in a shop), and essentially zero outdoors (e.g. passing along a road).


Except with the new variant perhaps we don't know this. :(


The original strain was at first 'a new variant'.So the 'new variant' is exactly what the original variant was ie a 'mutation' of a Coronavirus :wink:
So we actually know all we need to know!

rmurphy195
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby rmurphy195 » 22 Dec 2020, 11:19am

In the original lockdown when cycling I kept within a couple of miles radius of home, going around in circles.A couple of miles is the distance I could walk comfortably pushing the bike. And get home promptly if I needed the loo (being diabetic and stayting hydrated can be "interesting"!) No cafe stops anywhere, took (and still take) a flask of coffee. and a flapjack or somesuch.

Walking: 2 or 3 mile circuit no more than about 1 mile from home.

We all know what "local" means in our particular part of the world, we shouldn't really need telling if we are paying attention to the why of the rules as opposed to what they are. I'd go further and say why do we need rules in the first place, since we all know what the situation is and what we need to do to limit the damage.

BTW did anyone notice on the ministerial broadcast the other day where the new strain hotspots were? South east (one end of the M4) and a bit of South Wales thats at the other end? This sort of geographical information should tell us all something about travel, if we have the willingness to look. Perhaps some people in the South-East treat South Wales as local (or vice-versa) perhaps, 'cos its "only a couple of hours away along the motorway"? And "I only stood by him for a couple of minutes"?
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""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !

robing
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby robing » 23 Dec 2020, 7:13pm

The tiered system is different from previous lockdowns. Previously there wasn't any defined limit, except that it was once daily in the first lockdown. So your once daily could be a half century or more. Since then you can go out as many times a day as you like. And you could go in any direction.

But under the tiers you musn't leave Tier 4 to go to or through a lower Tier. And this could cause difficulties cycling if you live near a tier boundary and your bike ride will inevitably take you across a tier boundary.

sizbut
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby sizbut » 23 Dec 2020, 8:15pm

robing wrote:But under the tiers you musn't leave Tier 4 to go to or through a lower Tier. And this could cause difficulties cycling if you live near a tier boundary and your bike ride will inevitably take you across a tier boundary.


Precisely. Currently if I want to go for a ride I have a choice of two roads in/out of town and one of those is a dual-carriageway that's best avoided. Fortunately after Mr. Happy's announcements today that all changes in a few days time.

But under any arrangement of regional tiers these oddities are going to occur. There's no point moaning - if they move the boundary or changed the tier for you, it would just create a different oddity for someone else.

Oldjohnw
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby Oldjohnw » 23 Dec 2020, 8:34pm

Don't worry. In a few days I expect that the whole country will be in lockdown. And you'll be able to go anywhere. Or maybe nowhere.
John

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Sweep
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby Sweep » 25 Dec 2020, 8:32am

Oldjohnw wrote:Don't worry. In a few days I expect that the whole country will be in lockdown. And you'll be able to go anywhere. Or maybe nowhere.

:)
Yep, with tier4 spreading from london i was thinking that this will simplify ride planning and concerns that i might stray into more blessed areas.
Sweep

Barks
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby Barks » 1 Jan 2021, 4:48pm

I just hope all the second homers and holiday rental lot that left my Tier 4 county to go and spend Christmas and NY on the Isle of Wight, now also Tier 4 of course, are now physically prevented from boarding the ferries when they try to come ‘home’. Bunch of selfish tossers.

st599_uk
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby st599_uk » 1 Jan 2021, 6:15pm

Sweep wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Don't worry. In a few days I expect that the whole country will be in lockdown. And you'll be able to go anywhere. Or maybe nowhere.

:)
Yep, with tier4 spreading from london i was thinking that this will simplify ride planning and concerns that i might stray into more blessed areas.


I was similarly alarmed as during Lockdown 1 the local constabulary suggested staying within the Borough you live in. Both ends of my horseshoe shaped street are in a different borough as are all the local shops. The nearest shop in my borough is about 2 miles away, but not reachable without crossing the boundary.

Thankfully they saw sense.
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“the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”