Tier 4 exercise limits

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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mjr
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby mjr » 16 Jan 2021, 2:41pm

Stevek76 wrote:someone at a market is probably going to be there for anywhere from 15min-1hr.

I think only the stallholders are going to be there longer than 30 minutes unless it is a really big one and stallholders seem to be taking extra care.

At most markets, I think customers are maybe 5 minutes at the greens, 2 or 3 at fish or meat or similar, maybe 5 more at each of takeaway, pet food, papers or fabric goods. And that is in normal times, with people being even brisker in winter during a pandemic.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Psamathe
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby Psamathe » 19 Jan 2021, 2:37pm

Interesting article
https://theconversation.com/joggers-and-cyclists-should-wear-masks-heres-why-153110 wrote:Joggers and cyclists should wear masks – here's why
...
The main one being that the NHS is truly overwhelmed for the first time in its 70-year history because of the rise in COVID hospital admissions. All possible measures must be taken to reduce these numbers.
...
...The 15-minute rule for close contact is arbitrary (based on custom and practice rather than empirical evidence). One-metre or two-metre distancing rules (which are derived as much from economic models of lost productivity as from scientific evidence of protection) do not mean that if people keep within these distances, they are safe.
...
The exhaled breath of someone who is exercising vigorously has a different composition and different aerodynamic properties to that of someone who is not. As we all know, a passing jogger breathes heavily, generating exhalations with much higher momentum than occurs with resting breathing.
...

Ian

Pebble
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby Pebble » 19 Jan 2021, 2:56pm

In general though cyclists are not exercising vigorously, or at least I seldom do, may be near the top of a steep hill ? And in 40 mile yesterday I don't think I seen another cyclist or pedestrian.

Joggers do worry me though, when I pass I close one eye an hold my breath for as long as possible.

I do hope motorists have their ventilation set to recirculate so as to keep any germs they may be harbouring within their vehicles.

mattheus
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby mattheus » 19 Jan 2021, 3:15pm

Psamathe wrote:Interesting article
https://theconversation.com/joggers-and-cyclists-should-wear-masks-heres-why-153110 wrote:Joggers and cyclists should wear masks – here's why
...
The main one being that the NHS is truly overwhelmed for the first time in its 70-year history because of the rise in COVID hospital admissions. All possible measures must be taken to reduce these numbers.
...
...The 15-minute rule for close contact is arbitrary (based on custom and practice rather than empirical evidence). One-metre or two-metre distancing rules (which are derived as much from economic models of lost productivity as from scientific evidence of protection) do not mean that if people keep within these distances, they are safe.
...
The exhaled breath of someone who is exercising vigorously has a different composition and different aerodynamic properties to that of someone who is not. As we all know, a passing jogger breathes heavily, generating exhalations with much higher momentum than occurs with resting breathing.
...

Ian

That's all total speculation. And I'm suspicious of "science" that starts off with scare-words: NHS ... overwhelmed ... "all possible measures". blah blah ...
I await their study. I won't be dancing to her tune for now.

Traction_man
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby Traction_man » 19 Jan 2021, 9:54pm

mattheus wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Interesting article
https://theconversation.com/joggers-and-cyclists-should-wear-masks-heres-why-153110 wrote:Joggers and cyclists should wear masks – here's why
...
The main one being that the NHS is truly overwhelmed for the first time in its 70-year history because of the rise in COVID hospital admissions. All possible measures must be taken to reduce these numbers.
...
...The 15-minute rule for close contact is arbitrary (based on custom and practice rather than empirical evidence). One-metre or two-metre distancing rules (which are derived as much from economic models of lost productivity as from scientific evidence of protection) do not mean that if people keep within these distances, they are safe.
...
The exhaled breath of someone who is exercising vigorously has a different composition and different aerodynamic properties to that of someone who is not. As we all know, a passing jogger breathes heavily, generating exhalations with much higher momentum than occurs with resting breathing.
...

Ian

That's all total speculation. And I'm suspicious of "science" that starts off with scare-words: NHS ... overwhelmed ... "all possible measures". blah blah ...
I await their study. I won't be dancing to her tune for now.


And it appears from the final paragraph of the article that the research is yet to be done:

"My own team is about to undertake a more pragmatic randomised controlled trial of the impact of different kinds of masks on exercise capacity, comfort and physiological markers in people taking outdoor exercise. We hope to report the results of that study later this year."

So it's a bit of a preemptive strike...

Cheers,

Keith

thirdcrank
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Out of the frying pan ...

Postby thirdcrank » 25 Jan 2021, 11:18pm

I see a couple from Derbyshire have driven to York of all places and each received a ticket

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-y ... e-55798988

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mjr
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby mjr » 3 Feb 2021, 12:20pm

nirakaro wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:Just on the subject of masks fogging-up specs. When I went for my annual eye test in November, the optician spent some time and trouble taping the top of the mask across my face so there was no gap anywhere at the top of the mask where my breath could escape to affect my specs. That was totally effective, bearing in mind it was an eye test. My wife does our supermarket shopping and she has copied the taping approach and is very happy with the result.

Stuffing a tissue in the top of the mask works too.

Isn't taping every time you put a mask on a bit of a faff? I already find that a couple of motorists with badly-worn masks (nose-peepers!) get into a shop ahead of me while I'm aligning my mask which is annoying and that's without messing about tearing and applying tape.

Doesn't a tissue stuffed in the top of your mask go in your eyes often? Maybe your nose is a different shape to mine but I seem to have to wear masks with the top almost level with top of cheekbones to avoid it gradually slipping down the nose until it falls.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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thirdcrank
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby thirdcrank » 3 Feb 2021, 1:13pm

The taping is a huge faff. I only mentioned it because the subject came up and I'd just had the taping very carefully carried out by the optician before she tested my eyes. On reflexion, it must have exposed her longer than sensible to being so close to me.

I really do find the steamed-up specs a problem, even with rarely going anywhere where a face covering is required. Very early on, I anticipated this and bought myself a full-face transparent visor. As an aside, at one stage we had a load of problems with the Royal Mail and I went to the local delivery office in an unsuccessful quest for info. As I was walking down Queen Street - main pedestrianised shopping street - a passing wag asked if I was doing a bit of welding. On the way back I met him again and he asked again. As I pointed out to him "The old jokes are the best."

I really do try to comply with rules, including the house rules of individual places.

Going in somewhere warm from the cold is particularly bad. I went in the chip shop the other evening and I knew it would be a tenner plus. I made sure I had a tenner in my hand when I went in but for the rest, I had to offer her a handful of change so she could take what she needed.

A couple of weeks ago I had my belated annual diabetes review. At teatime last Friday, I had a call from the GPs surgery to say they wanted another urine specimen and as I had no specimen container, I had to make an appointment to get one. At bang on the appointed hour I presented myself and after a discussion through the intercom - two discussions because the first time they forgot to release the door - I was in. Hands disinfected, on with one of their masks under my visor and fully steamed up. I then had an interchange with somebody through a closed window who was obviously scared by their role, trying to explain to me where the specimen containers were. My hearing's not the best nor was her English. Luckily, when I returned the following day to deliver my specimen, the usual lady was more relaxed. There was deep snow and she was doing everything on her own but we were able to have a laugh.

A long waffle with time on my hands.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby Tangled Metal » 3 Feb 2021, 1:31pm

If you're putting any increased effort into an activity you'll be breathing out more. Cycling included. You might not be feeling like you're putting in a lot of effort but your breathing is going to be more than when sedentary.

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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby mjr » 3 Feb 2021, 1:47pm

thirdcrank wrote:Going in somewhere warm from the cold is particularly bad. I went in the chip shop the other evening [...]

Just as an aside, it crazes me that some take-aways are still expecting their customers to go indoors, instead of serving across the threshold or out of a window. The good ones have built counters across their doorways or are bringing ordered meals out to people - the rest don't care enough about hygiene IMO.

Scotland outlawed making people go inside for takeaways or click-collections. England should follow suit.

Thanks for the other info, though. I've a drawstring-topped buff on order now, to see if that may close tight enough at the top while loose enough lower to be an acceptable solution if outdoor masks become compulsory (or just generally for the cold blast early next week!).
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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thirdcrank
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby thirdcrank » 3 Feb 2021, 2:46pm

Our chip shop has got steadily more relaxed since the first lockdown when it closed completely for several weeks. They have a window which looks as though it would be ideal for hatch service. At one point they were bringing the stuff out to customers outside but that's stopped. I'm not a regular there; perhaps once every six weeks, give or take.

Re the Buff, I have what I think is catalogued as a neck gaiter which I received at some time as a gift. It has a drawstring which can be pulled tight. I use it for brief occasions. eg every morning I go for my newspaper and collect another for a former colleague in his 80s who has to shield. We both pay with vouchers and our newsagent just sets them aside for us so for six days I just bob in and out and every Monday drop off the vouchers as well. Unless there's a complication I'm in and out in seconds. I use the neck gaiter for that in that it's a face covering but in the very short time I'm in there my specs steam up. I suspect that the only thing that would stop that would be heated lenses.

One bit of an irritation for me is that there's sometimes the suggestion that I must be in my dotage. I'm not getting any younger but I can still do mental arithmetic. When I went for my diabetes review, the scales were metric and the healthcare assistant said she would convert it into stones and pounds for me. I'd already done it in my head while she was faffing with the calculator. And having worked in £ S D, decimal is a doddle

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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby mjr » 3 Feb 2021, 5:16pm

thirdcrank wrote:[...]Re the Buff, I have what I think is catalogued as a neck gaiter which I received at some time as a gift. It has a drawstring which can be pulled tight. [...] Unless there's a complication I'm in and out in seconds. I use the neck gaiter for that in that it's a face covering but in the very short time I'm in there my specs steam up. I suspect that the only thing that would stop that would be heated lenses.

Possibly. It seems a bit of a no-hoper until your glasses warm up, even if you can move them far enough down the nose not to catch much exhalation. Not even specialist anti-fog stuff seems to work for this situation.

I think going into buildings is a different and more difficult problem than outside moving use where there's at least an ample flow of dry air available to demist, so it's just a question of reducing the flow of damp breath across the lens enough to demist faster than it mists!

And having worked in £ S D, decimal is a doddle

On the one hand, I'm glad to have missed that one because my mental arithmetic depends greatly on how much I've used it recently... on the other hand, maybe it would have made my arithmetic speed better!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby Postboxer » 4 Feb 2021, 12:52am

Tangled Metal wrote:If you're putting any increased effort into an activity you'll be breathing out more. Cycling included. You might not be feeling like you're putting in a lot of effort but your breathing is going to be more than when sedentary.


And you can add in the fact that someone cycling is travelling faster than a walking or stationary pedestrian, so the breath is definitely faster, even if the cyclist were breathing normally.

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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby prestavalve » 4 Feb 2021, 6:45am

Postboxer wrote:And you can add in the fact that someone cycling is travelling faster than a walking or stationary pedestrian, so the breath is definitely faster, even if the cyclist were breathing normally.


So if two people set off down a high street on a windless day, the pedestrian is going to leave more cgi-newsgraphic breath mist than the cyclist, whose plumes of exhalation will be like a dotted line.

I say we should outlaw farting: the Chinese have just started doing bum swabs, and they aren't like the French in these things.

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Re: Tier 4 exercise limits

Postby Traction_man » 16 Feb 2021, 5:55pm