COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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mjr
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Post by mjr »

rmurphy195 wrote:Not forgetting that the new strain is highly infectious, to what extent is not clear yet, so maybe the "As long as we don't get too close to people for more than 15 minutes" no longer works,or maybe it lives longer on door handles and gate posts. Who knows.

So cover your face and don't touch it (including eyes) after touching handles without washing or gelling first. The WHO guidance is still sufficient. The inconsistent gov.uk advice mainly adds negative consequences and I suspect it's there mainly so Johnson can attempt to blame us for not following it tightly enough.

And what penalty are you prepared to take if you are wrong - death perhaps, or lifelong disability from long covid?

Early on, I thought I would probably die if I caught this, based on initial advice. Now it's not so sure and I suspect there's enough in this boat that it's not really scary any more. We just want to avoid catching it because all else after that is not up to us - and keeping up usual levels of exercise is part of that.

It crept out from the high infection areas somehow now, didn't it.

It hardly crept!
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and not only stations - they were probably a small fraction of the pre-Christmas exodus. I posted elsewhere about our coastal area having a lot of shiny 4x4s with London garage/dealer markings the following day.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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reohn2
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Post by reohn2 »

If it weren't so tragic it'd be...... :- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zx3DFX ... e=youtu.be
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
thirdcrank
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Post by thirdcrank »

Higher up I wrote this:-

... During an earlier stage of the pandemic, a superintendent in a tier two area was on the media daily threatening enforcement for anybody coming from tier three. It might have all been huff-and-puff or he might have been passing the same message out to people on the street. ...


Here's the latest from the same source: loads of tickets issued but all for indoor gatherings.

North Yorkshire Covid fines top 330 in one month
More than 330 fines have been issued to people in North Yorkshire in one month for breaking Covid restrictions, police have said.

Supt Mike Walker, who's in charge of North Yorkshire Police's response to the pandemic, told BBC Radio York: "Between the start of December 2020 to the start of January 2021 we issued 334 fines just for indoor gatherings - so it's people going to other people's houses that they don't live with."

Supt Walker said some people who officers encountered "don't seem to particularly care there's a worldwide pandemic".

"The seriousness of the situation, the spread of the virus in the city of York and across North Yorkshire is exceptionally serious," he added.

"We're seeing more people in hospital and more deaths, so I'm asking people to think twice before they leave the house. It's very much a stay-at-home message.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/england?ns_m ... type=share
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PS Here's a link to an earlier relevant discussion about this

viewtopic.php?p=1556627#p1556627
rmurphy195
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Post by rmurphy195 »

DaveReading wrote:
rmurphy195 wrote:Also don't forget that current estimates are that 1 in 3 people are carrying the disease without ever knowing they have it

You might want to study your source more carefully, or phrase your comment more precisely.

It's not that 1 in 3 of the population are carrying the disease, it's that 1 in 3 of infected people are asymptomatic.


oops, slight typo!
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gloomyandy
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Post by gloomyandy »

Anyone planning on visiting the Peak district? It seems that Derbyshire Police have decided on a strict interpretation of the "guidance", it really is time that they sorted this out.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-d ... e-55560814
MorningDew
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Post by MorningDew »

gloomyandy wrote:Anyone planning on visiting the Peak district? It seems that Derbyshire Police have decided on a strict interpretation of the "guidance", it really is time that they sorted this out.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-d ... e-55560814


That was an eye-opener and pretty shocking.

If I'm stopped when out on my bike, I'm presuming that I can just tell the cops that I'm going for a ride to test my eyesight and that all will be fine. The blessing of Michael Gove will be upon me.
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mjr
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Post by mjr »

MorningDew wrote:
gloomyandy wrote:Anyone planning on visiting the Peak district? It seems that Derbyshire Police have decided on a strict interpretation of the "guidance", it really is time that they sorted this out.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-d ... e-55560814


That was an eye-opener and pretty shocking.

If I'm stopped when out on my bike, I'm presuming that I can just tell the cops that I'm going for a ride to test my eyesight and that all will be fine. The blessing of Michael Gove will be upon me.

Fines under review, says https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-d ... e-55594244
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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KTHSullivan
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Post by KTHSullivan »

Just cycled to my local COOP about three miles away so obviously within the rules/guidance/law/regulations.....who knows. However whilst in said COOP a idiot arrived coughing and spluttering without a face covering and proceeded to use the "Costa" coffee machine. I find it slightly bizarre that if I were in Derbyshire I could have possibly received a fixed penalty fine for being "out of area", but the clown in the car on his way to work spreading god knows what would have probably been provided with "guidance". Ho Hum.
Just remember, when you’re over the hill, you begin to pick up speed. :lol:
Psamathe
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Post by Psamathe »

On Radio 4 this morning they were interviewing somebody from one of the committees advising SAGE and she was saying that data shows that compliance with lockdown is 90% (she didn't give a source for the data). She went on to say that it is true there are a lot more people around, on public transport, etc. but that is because this lockdown is a lot laxer than the spring lockdown.

So maybe I'm jumping to too many conclusions without evidence when I comment on so many breaking the rules when it's the rules hat are the failure rather than the public compliance.

Ian
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Post by PH »

gloomyandy wrote:Anyone planning on visiting the Peak district? It seems that Derbyshire Police have decided on a strict interpretation of the "guidance", it really is time that they sorted this out.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-d ... e-55560814

They got it wrong
https://www.derbyshire.police.uk/news/d ... BFqnWPsSBE

"All fixed penalty notices during this relevant period that have been issued will be reviewed for compliance. All recipients will be contacted."
Jamesh
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Post by Jamesh »

I should think they are glad that the two ladies weren't a couple of ITU nurses getting doing some unwinding....

Then there would have been some serious PR digging ...

Cheers James
deeferdonk
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Post by deeferdonk »

I cycled to Foremark reservoir where those ladies were fined this morning. It's on my usual weekend route and I like to ride the climb on the road onto the site. No sign of the police then but they seem to have scared away the visitors. There's usually a few dog walkers around at that time at least, but there was just one car in the car park.
thirdcrank
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Post by thirdcrank »

The media releases have continued. This seems to be the latest. Bearing in mind both the serious nature of the pandemic and the inevitable public interest in an enforcement operation which seems to have been intended to attract public attention - if not in quite this way - this seems poor.

Initially Derbyshire Police defended its actions, saying legislation said trips should be "local" and driving to a location to exercise "is clearly not in the spirit of the national effort to reduce our travel, reduce the possible spread of the disease and reduce the number of deaths".

Derbyshire Police has also been giving fixed penalty notices to people who visit beauty spots at Calke Abbey and Elvaston Castle.

But later, the force said new guidance from the National Police Chiefs Council (NPCC) had "clarified the policing response concerning travel and exercise".

The guidance said: "The Covid regulations which officers enforce and which enables them to issue FPNs [fixed penalty notices] for breaches, do not restrict the distance travelled for exercise."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-d ... e-55547302

AIUI, this goes some way to resolve the query posed by the OP.

Unfortunately, it's done nothing much to help the people who are keen to do the right thing but are unsure of regulations. (AIUI from one of the links, somebody who approached a member of Derbyshire Police for advice at one of the beauty spots got a ticket.)
simonhill
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Post by simonhill »

When politicians come on radio or TV, I think they should bring a lawyer from their Department with them. When asked what are the rules, they should defer to their legal friend.

Trying to disseminate this important information via an often flustered politician on an early morning show is crazy. Add to it that the interviewer may well be trying to lay a trap and it is a disaster.

I'm happy to have the politicians shamed, but not with slips and errors on something so important.

PS, not sure if it is the law, but one such politician (Gove I think) said you can meet one other outside, but can't sit down together. True or false?
Psamathe
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Post by Psamathe »

simonhill wrote:....
PS, not sure if it is the law, but one such politician (Gove I think) said you can meet one other outside, but can't sit down together. True or false?

That is what I understood from his "clarification" - I understand he said it on the basis that if you sit together you are no longer exercising ...

Ian
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