COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
pwa
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby pwa » 11 Jan 2021, 3:47pm

Things are a bit clearer in Wales. Cycle or walk as far as you like, and for as long as you like, but start and finish exercise at home. No car.

Oldjohnw
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby Oldjohnw » 11 Jan 2021, 3:48pm

John

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Mick F
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby Mick F » 11 Jan 2021, 4:08pm

pwa wrote:Things are a bit clearer in Wales. Cycle or walk as far as you like, and for as long as you like, but start and finish exercise at home. No car.
Excellent.

My plan WAS to cycle to Plymouth down the main road and over the Tamar Suspension Bridge (20miles) then take the train to cross the Royal Albert Bridge to St Germans, then cycle home via the country lanes (another 20miles).

One, I'd be starting and finishing at home - Good.
Two, I'd be taking a train for a non-essential journey - Bad.
Mick F. Cornwall

prestavalve
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby prestavalve » 11 Jan 2021, 4:28pm

Stevek76 wrote:Guidance has normally been published right after the announcement but that just leaves everyone speculating as to what is guidance and what will actually be law!


The laws all contain the phrase "if, without reasonable excuse..." - which is a catch all term for "if, not being posh enough to get away with it...".

The real damage cause by lockdown isn't measured in Big Macs scarfed whilst on the toilet, but in the lives of children lost to abusive home environments, both now and in the future.

Oldjohnw
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby Oldjohnw » 11 Jan 2021, 5:01pm

And the solution for child abuse is not abandoning precautions over a killer disease. The abuse in homes should be addressed Covid or not.

Our government set aside over 50 children's rights at he beginning of the pandemic. A group I do some work with, Article 39, took the Education Secretary to court and eventually won. He is meant to be reinstating these lost rights but it seems to take much longer than removing them.
John

pwa
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby pwa » 11 Jan 2021, 5:13pm

Mick F wrote:
pwa wrote:Things are a bit clearer in Wales. Cycle or walk as far as you like, and for as long as you like, but start and finish exercise at home. No car.
Excellent.

My plan WAS to cycle to Plymouth down the main road and over the Tamar Suspension Bridge (20miles) then take the train to cross the Royal Albert Bridge to St Germans, then cycle home via the country lanes (another 20miles).

One, I'd be starting and finishing at home - Good.
Two, I'd be taking a train for a non-essential journey - Bad.

I don't think the train bit in the middle would be okay in Wales. It would be deemed non-essential travel and therefore not allowed during the current restrictions. It wouldn't be seen as part of your exercise. Well, not unless you did star jumps in the carriage until your stop :lol:

thirdcrank
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby thirdcrank » 11 Jan 2021, 5:17pm

I get the impression that the emphasis on controlling travel to exercise is motivated by NIMBYism. eg Except when you nick somebody from just down the road, they are all "comers-in" and - perhaps more to the point - not constituents of your local sheriff AKA PCC.

My understanding of the covid info is that if somebody is exercising outdoors and maintains social distancing, then there's little harm done and that's outweighed by the benefits of people getting exercise.

AIUI, the biggy is people mixing indoors. It's probably a step too far to invite people to grass up their neighbours in this country but households mixing seems to be the biggest spreader.

irc
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby irc » 11 Jan 2021, 5:26pm

thirdcrank wrote:My main point would be I cannot imagine anybody has got into trouble by sticking to the "Don't drink and drive" exhortation. If anybody wants more detailed guidance, it's available and I fancy plenty of people have got into trouble by misinterpreting it.

irc has helpfully posted what I take to be the English regulation which the the tickets in Derbyshire were "purported" (a legal friends' word if ever there was one) to be issued under.


I would be interested to see what reg the Derbyshire Two were ticketed under. Even the police now agree it can't be for distance.

" "The Covid regulations which officers enforce and which enables them to issue FPNs [fixed penalty notices] for breaches, do not restrict the distance travelled for exercise.""

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-d ... e-55594244

Disgraceful policing IMO. If the govt want a ban on travel for exercise they should make it the law. There are far better uses of police time than intimidating people going for a walk where in any case the risk of transmission is minimal. I have no issue with large gatherings being dealt with. But it seems certain protests get a pass as being in the too difficult box while the police are losing support through heavy handed policing of walkers.

Like the Crianlarch Two back in June. No Covid reg broken. So they charge hillwalkers with a serious common law crime instead.

http://parkswatchscotland.co.uk/2020/06 ... e-dropped/

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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby mjr » 11 Jan 2021, 6:48pm

Stevek76 wrote:
Psamathe wrote: As I understand it, last time law was not actually published into some time after it came into effect.


I can't immediately recall one of these having not been published before coming into force. However most have been published mere hours beforehand, the worse was less than 30min before midnight and the actual 'coming into force' time on that was shifted into the morning to make it look less daft.

The worst recent one was the London/SE Tier 4 change:

Made at 6.00 a.m on 20th December 2020
Laid before Parliament 21st December 2020
Coming into force at 07.00 a.m. on 20th December 2020

I didn't check the website before 7am but I seriously doubt it was published in under an hour on a Sunday morning.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby mjr » 11 Jan 2021, 6:53pm

thirdcrank wrote:My understanding of the covid info is that if somebody is exercising outdoors and maintains social distancing, then there's little harm done and that's outweighed by the benefits of people getting exercise.

AIUI, the biggy is people mixing indoors. It's probably a step too far to invite people to grass up their neighbours in this country but households mixing seems to be the biggest spreader.

I agree. Observation while collecting some home repair parts today suggests checking that groups in cars at the drive-throughs or visiting the pound shops only contain one household would probably net some mixed house parties.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Psamathe
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby Psamathe » 11 Jan 2021, 6:57pm

Official from Norfolk Police on local BBC Magazine program said that if you live in a town or village you should not lave that town or village. Which means I can go for a ride of about 500 meters.

Meanwhilse Johnson illustrates what "stay local" means travelling from London to Bristol for a totally pointless and needless photo op.

Meanwhile others (above) have pointed out, "local" is not even in the law.

This is total madness. Madness is not "stay local" but madness that politicians do what they want irrespective and that the "guidance" is totaly variable depending on what official is explaining it.

Ian

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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby ossie » 11 Jan 2021, 7:06pm

Psamathe wrote:Official from Norfolk Police on local BBC Magazine program said that if you live in a town or village you should not lave that town or village. Which means I can go for a ride of about 500 meters.

Meanwhilse Johnson illustrates what "stay local" means travelling from London to Bristol for a totally pointless and needless photo op.

Meanwhile others (above) have pointed out, "local" is not even in the law.

This is total madness. Madness is not "stay local" but madness that politicians do what they want irrespective and that the "guidance" is totaly variable depending on what official is explaining it.

Ian


He's the PM...perhaps they should have sent a lookalike to Bristol. I've no issue with him travelling, in the same way other leaders in other professions travel at difficult times. His presence achieved a few things. I'd rather that than he sat in a bunker somewhere.

Any comment on his 14 mile cycle ride? The rest of the web appears to be ripping him a new one.

irc
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby irc » 11 Jan 2021, 7:34pm

14 mile cycle ride? What is the problem?

As for travelling to Bristol? Part of his job. Just like the numerous journos visiting hospitals.

DaveReading
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby DaveReading » 11 Jan 2021, 7:36pm

ossie wrote:Any comment on his 14 mile cycle ride?

Surely only 7 miles ? In fact probably not that far.

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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby KTHSullivan » 11 Jan 2021, 7:43pm

I think that in a general sense that the majority of people undertaking exercise, on a cycle or not, could provide to reasonable enquiring agent that they were indeed doing so within the letter of the law/guidance. However, when those enquiring are acting in an unreasonable manner and enforce their perception of what is appropriate; the majority of reasonable individuals within a population will start to question the appropriateness of the regulations as a whole. The apparent mob handed manner by which Derbyshire police conducted themselves recently effectively ridiculed the Chief Constable and the Derbyshire police force a whole. Also we further have to consider that if as reported in the news, that the "fines" issued will have to be "reviewed" it is yet another fantastic waste of public money. Money that could be spent elsewhere in these somewhat turbulent times. Ho Hum
Just remember, when you’re over the hill, you begin to pick up speed. :lol: