COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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simonineaston
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby simonineaston » 9 Jan 2021, 7:32pm

On the other hand, anyone with an ounce of common-sense could work out that the fall-back postion is stay at home - don't drive across the country in the hopes of a nice winter walk up the Brecons - what is the matter with these people??
byyeee,
SiE

Oldjohnw
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby Oldjohnw » 9 Jan 2021, 7:48pm

simonineaston wrote:On the other hand, anyone with an ounce of common-sense could work out that the fall-back postion is stay at home - don't drive across the country in the hopes of a nice winter walk up the Brecons - what is the matter with these people??


And I imagine anyone crossing a county border for exercise, no matter how close it is, is inviting criticism.

I do wonder how many people who run to the press when the police stop and ask are as angry at stop and search on the streets of London.
John

Psamathe
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby Psamathe » 9 Jan 2021, 7:57pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
simonineaston wrote:On the other hand, anyone with an ounce of common-sense could work out that the fall-back postion is stay at home - don't drive across the country in the hopes of a nice winter walk up the Brecons - what is the matter with these people??


And I imagine anyone crossing a county border for exercise, no matter how close it is, is inviting criticism.

I do wonder how many people who run to the press when the police stop and ask are as angry at stop and search on the streets of London.

I would hope "press" would verify the story and be aware they may be being used to vent anger. Particularly organisations like the BBC.

I'd also expect a Police force who had not done what was alleged/reported (or suffered wild exaggeration) would make some formal statement about the reported incident which they can easily do without being argumentative or contradictory e.g. "<n> officers on patrol stopped <y>, explained the rules and it became necessary to issue fixed penalty notices in line with force policy" (basically just words about the fact of the incident).

Ian

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mjr
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby mjr » 9 Jan 2021, 8:12pm

simonineaston wrote:On the other hand, anyone with an ounce of common-sense could work out that the fall-back postion is stay at home - don't drive across the country in the hopes of a nice winter walk up the Brecons - what is the matter with these people??

Let's not be too hasty because maybe they are hoping for more exercise than they'll get walking their local riverbank in the fog, hoping to replace the fell-running races they'd usually be doing in normal circumstances in order to maintain their fitness to be as healthy as possible if they do get struck down by covid!

Let's deal with all the house parties going on and then worry about people who travel slightly too far to exercise in isolation or pairs, eh?

This petty-minded onslaught against exercise, active travel and public health by Boris "way overweight"* Johnson and his ministers (who have probably been binge-snacking during lockdowns like average Brits) is really nasty, definitely unhelpful and probably lethal. From now on, let's see them all doing their interviews at the start or end of an exercise outing, not static behind a lectern in an overheated underventilated wood-panelled room.

* source: Boris Johnson, 27 July 2020
Last edited by mjr on 9 Jan 2021, 8:13pm, edited 3 times in total.
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prestavalve
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby prestavalve » 9 Jan 2021, 8:12pm

Having lived in a fairly corrupt "democracy" run by oligarchical cliques (Malaysia) during a lockdown earlier this year, my opinion is that it is far better for people to have an irresponsible disregard for authority than for authority to have an irresponsible disregard for people. And in practice, no, we don't seem to be able to do much better than those extremes - unless you can cite Elysium.

At least the UK is less vicious because it is more incompetently administered and so those of us with common sense have the freedom to exercise it (and I don't have to be constrained and punished because of the fear authority has over other people's stupidity).

fastpedaller
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby fastpedaller » 9 Jan 2021, 10:04pm

An interesting post above from Prestavalve.
There are some (maybe not here) who say "the authorities are trying to control us" and other such nonsense. IMHO if they were trying to control us we'd have been in a FULL lockdown with very limited food supplies and 'travel hours', petrol coupons etc. We haven't seen control yet, apart from the odd 'blip' the Derbyshire Police seem to favour, the policing has been tolerant, to (IMHO) very tolerant where there have been crowds.
On the whole it seems people are sensible apart from a minority of the public, and a minority of the Police (and the odd MP).

Oldjohnw
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby Oldjohnw » 10 Jan 2021, 8:50am

Just because you can doesn't mean that you should.

After all, the government said we could go on holiday and meet up at Christmas. They even paid us to go to the pub. That ended well!
John

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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby Oldjohnw » 10 Jan 2021, 1:44pm

I read that the Home Secretary supports the Derbyshire police.

Any possible suggestion that I may have made which might possibly have shown even a modicum of support for them has now, therefore, been withdrawn.

If she supports them, I don't.
John

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Syd
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby Syd » 10 Jan 2021, 3:25pm

Oldjohnw wrote:Just because you can doesn't mean that you should.

I have continually said this throughout.

I look after a team of 35 and cannot criticise them for their actions unless I am without criticism myself.

geocycle
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby geocycle » 10 Jan 2021, 3:29pm

The police have a tough job but the antics of the Derbyshire constabulary undermine their position. They have to work within the law and any interpretation has to be judged reasonable. I can imagine the instructions were to make some fines to demonstrate the seriousness of the situation but if it goes beyond where public opinion is they will face more serious resistance.

sjs
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby sjs » 10 Jan 2021, 3:46pm

Oldjohnw wrote:And I imagine anyone crossing a county border for exercise, no matter how close it is, is inviting criticism.


Why? Genuine question. What have county boundaries got to do with it? I live within a short stroll of the Bedfordshire boundary, and have just returned from a cicrular walk, starting and finishing at my door, most of which was in Beds.

mattsccm
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby mattsccm » 10 Jan 2021, 4:03pm

Forest of Dean police have, today, chased home 7 lads from Caerphilly. Group size alone was enough. Chuck in a 50 mile journey as well as other things and the local, FoD, applause for the police is noticeable.
Surely our collective attitude should not be, "can I get away with it?" but "can I avoid doing it?"

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Syd
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COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby Syd » 10 Jan 2021, 4:19pm

sjs wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:And I imagine anyone crossing a county border for exercise, no matter how close it is, is inviting criticism.


Why? Genuine question. What have county boundaries got to do with it? I live within a short stroll of the Bedfordshire boundary, and have just returned from a cicrular walk, starting and finishing at my door, most of which was in Beds.

I have seen in news stories (which I can’t find at present), and had confirmed by someone who lives there, police were handing out fines, before the lockdown, to folk from East Lothian, in tier 2, travelling to Fort Kinnard, as shopping outlet just in the City of Edinburgh, in tier 3. The boundary line is the roads immediately to the south and east of the outlet.

Genuine question.

Would crossing the boundary change the hospital you would be taken to in event of an emergency?

PS In the case of above I know it would not.

sjs
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby sjs » 10 Jan 2021, 5:24pm

Syd wrote:I have seen in news stories (which I can’t find at present), and had confirmed by someone who lives there, police were handing out fines, before the lockdown, to folk from East Lothian, in tier 2, travelling to Fort Kinnard, as shopping outlet just in the City of Edinburgh, in tier 3. The boundary line is the roads immediately to the south and east of the outlet.

Genuine question.

Would crossing the boundary change the hospital you would be taken to in event of an emergency?

PS In the case of above I know it would not.


I don't think so. Herts and Beds share a police service and an ambulance service. During the present crisis they have also always been in the same Tier (when applicable).

ChrisButch
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Re: COVID Lockdown - Guidance versus the Law

Postby ChrisButch » 10 Jan 2021, 5:59pm

I see that both Hancock and Patel have today doubled down on hardline policing, citing the Derbys. incident and saying they want to see more of it. Whatever the rights and wrongs of this, it would be prudent to assume that anybody taking the liberal approach to the guidelines which several here have advocated, even in situations where a liberal approach is just common sense, does so very much at their own risk.