Parts from the UK

[PH]

But really, why did you think any deal would allow a duty exception in one direction? Or that in dealing with the EU there would be some customs differences between states?

I don't think that the important question for this thread is what people expected or should have expected. It's what's happening now, and what's going to happen in the future.

Jonathan

Well yes, but it seems every time I point out what the current position is, someone pops up to tell me it's wrong, when they'd have been better off looking for themselves.
For clarity - Imports into the UK of £135 or less and exports to the EU of 150 Euro or less are not liable for duty with some notable exceptions - Perfume, alcohol, tobacco, that I know of. This isn't a temporary measure, it is the same limit to where the VAT is liable but not otherwise related to it.
I don't mind if someone wants to tell me I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time, just please, check the facts first.

[Bmblbzzz]

Just for accuracy - As someone else pointed out earlier, this doesn't apply to packages under £135.

Not sure about that

I wouldn't have written it If I wasn't sure about it, if you have any doubt, Google.
I'm not blaming you, it's an indication of the general lack of information, caused by the lack of time between finalising the arrangements and the implementation.

Okay, let me check I've got this now. For packages under £135/€150 between EUSM (including NI) and UK:
1. VAT at the rate applicable for the seller's country should not be charged.
2. The seller is liable for collecting VAT at the rate applicable for the purchaser's country and forwarding it to the relevant revenue agency.
3. No import duties should be charged.
3. Point 2 applies to all goods under the relevant limit arriving in EU or UK from any other country worldwide.
4. Point 2 has been deferred by EU countries for incoming goods until June this year.
5. Excise tariffs, ie taxes on sale of specific goods such as alcohol and tobacco, will still be charged at importing country rates.
6. Incoming goods will still be liable to health and safety checks where applicable (ie food products, animal and plant products).

I imagine that in practice points 5 and 6 might well be overlooked, at least for a few months.

[Stevek76]

Without wishing to appear too rude, you show, in this post and others, so little understanding of this subject that you really would benefit from a little more reading and a little less typing.

That seems a bit strong given it was me pointing out the £135 limit and you noting you weren't aware of it in the other thread?

Could I politely ask that before questioning again you have the courtesy to do a little fact checking to confirm what you think you know is correct. But really, why did you think any deal would allow a duty exception in one direction? Or that in dealing with the EU there would be some customs differences between states?

I queried rather than stating as fact? I made a cursory search but did not find anything, I partly assumed that since the EU had delayed their vat changes till the summer and that the two elements are clearly co-ordinated that any customs limit change may well be as well.

As for 'any deal' I'm not sure what you mean there. The UK's custom limit change to £135, like the VAT, is global and nothing to do with the EU-UK trade deal (though both were clearly derived from internal EU initiatives when the uk was a member), goods from a chinese seller on aliexpress or whatever are also now customs free under £135 (but they must collect the vat) as much as some shimano bits from germany are.

On custom differences by EU state, I'd think it'd be consistent too being a customs union. However, I'd faintly recalled writings from trade professionals over the last years that it's not always quite that simple and during the quick search above I did stumble upon https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-ma ... n/content/. If the rules are identical, I'm not quite sure why individual member states can be selected as a destination?


Edit: shimano parts from germany probably a bad example given the japan deal so they're probably already customs free. Some chinese bike goods resold on from germany then.

[PH]

Not sure about that

I wouldn't have written it If I wasn't sure about it, if you have any doubt, Google.
I'm not blaming you, it's an indication of the general lack of information, caused by the lack of time between finalising the arrangements and the implementation.

Okay, let me check I've got this now. For packages under £135/€150 between EUSM (including NI) and UK:
1. VAT at the rate applicable for the seller's country should not be charged.
2. The seller is liable for collecting VAT at the rate applicable for the purchaser's country and forwarding it to the relevant revenue agency.
3. No import duties should be charged.
3. Point 2 applies to all goods under the relevant limit arriving in EU or UK from any other country worldwide.
4. Point 2 has been deferred by EU countries for incoming goods until June this year.
5. Excise tariffs, ie taxes on sale of specific goods such as alcohol and tobacco, will still be charged at importing country rates.
6. Incoming goods will still be liable to health and safety checks where applicable (ie food products, animal and plant products).

I imagine that in practice points 5 and 6 might well be overlooked, at least for a few months.

I think that's spot on, if only the UK government could be so clear.

[Jdsk]

I'd just add the current grace periods for a couple of categories...

Jonathan

[Psamathe]

I'll open the bidding:

Rail freight to as close as possible.
EV for final delivery charged from renewable sources.
Minimal handling/ relays/ delays/ inspections/ pacany, king and unpacking.

Jonathan

Very admirable, but given the "where can I get it cheapest?" nature of many, I suspect that will also apply to distribution method.

Isn't it time we considered the environmental impact of how our goods get to us, rather than just saving a couple of quid?

I agree but best likely reality is that only a small minority would consider such factors and even fewer be prepared to pay a bit more for a more environmentally friendly option.

Hence more effective and easier for Governments to introduce taxes and constraints on higher polluting transport and products. Additionally to put in place taxation to prevent us "offshoring" our pollution.

Ian

[ElCani]

I just used the Planet X web chat to inquire about sales of parts from the UK to Sweden. I asked whether an order under £135 would arrive free of additional import charges and VAT. I believe that should be the case based on what I've read in this thread, although I could be mistaken! The response I got was that VAT would be payable by me on receiving the order and that the PX invoice in the box would not include VAT. I clarified that this was the case for orders under £135.

So, if this is correct, PX are charging EU customers the same price as UK customers on all orders, even though the are not charging the VAT. Which they should be doing on orders under £135!

Not great...

[Bmblbzzz]

I just used the Planet X web chat to inquire about sales of parts from the UK to Sweden. I asked whether an order under £135 would arrive free of additional import charges and VAT. I believe that should be the case based on what I've read in this thread, although I could be mistaken! The response I got was that VAT would be payable by me on receiving the order and that the PX invoice in the box would not include VAT. I clarified that this was the case for orders under £135.

So, if this is correct, PX are charging EU customers the same price as UK customers on all orders, even though the are not charging the VAT. Which they should be doing on orders under £135!

Not great...

What they're doing is probably - probably! - right, for the moment. The EU has deferred until later this year (June I think) the requirement for third-country sellers to collect VAT on behalf of the destination country. And obviously they shouldn't be collecting UK VAT. So, until the deferred arrangement comes into operation, it's up to you to pay the Swedish VAT. How this will be done I don't know; you might find the Swedish PO or whoever delivers it has done it for you and charged a hefty handling fee to cover this!

[ElCani]

Right, thanks. Not impressed with PX pocketing the "VAT" component of the price paid by EU customers. Anyway, I've had stuff sent to a UK friend who will forward it on.

[Jdsk]

We might be approaching some sort of crunch about the Government's denial of the problems...

https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1361349220926685187

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

I'm even less convinced that we're only seeing "teething pains".

The grace periods have already led to accusations of bad faith and look like ending up in court.

And the Cabinet Office has just had a letter of reprimand from the UK Statistics Authority for using unpublished and unverifiable data. (That followed the counter briefing in response to the RHA's figure of a drop in exports to the EU of 68%.)
https://osr.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/correspondence/use-of-unpublished-statistics-in-news-release/

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

Brompton (and others) on exports:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/mar/13/uk-exporters-brexit-damage-costs-customs-paperwork

Jonathan

[MikeF]

Conveniently for the Government it seems the Covid pandemic has deflected attention away from the problems caused by Brexit.

[francovendee]

Conveniently for the Government it seems the Covid pandemic has deflected attention away from the problems caused by Brexit.

I thought exactly that when I heard of the 40% drop in exports in January. At other times it would have been the main topic on every news programe for days.
Fingers crossed it's blip and exports pick up but my guess is that 25% less will be the norm from now on.

[Jdsk]

Conveniently for the Government it seems the Covid pandemic has deflected attention away from the problems caused by Brexit.

I thought exactly that when I heard of the 40% drop in exports in January. At other times it would have been the main topic on every news programe for days.
Fingers crossed it's blip and exports pick up but my guess is that 25% less will be the norm from now on.

There's been a lot about teething problems. I originally expected that after the referendum, the general elections and the negotiated agreement that the Government would work flat out for the best (= least worst economically) implementation possible. I've changed my mind: they seem happy to keep this in the area of political advantage and campaigning.

New statements from experts (Huh!) on ports and road haulage in:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... the-summer

Jonathan

PS: The success of the vaccine development and delivery also looks like deflecting attention from the avoidable deaths.