Toe Overlap

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
MIB2020
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Joined: 24 Feb 2020, 10:46am

Toe Overlap

Post by MIB2020 »

Bearing in mind I am no athlete, if toe overlap is an issue on a bike, would replacing the forks with a more “bent” designed eliminate this ? I understand other things would change but considering I get on well with a wide range of bikes including a 1931 sunbeam gents tourer I am used to “odd handling”.
tatanab
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by tatanab »

Cheaper, and far easier to fit shorter cranks. Some find any amount of overlap a hazard and some cope just fine with considerable overlap, but if you find it a problem then experimenting at the easier solution may work for you.
Vorpal
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by Vorpal »

A couple of previous threads about toe overlap might have something useful?

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=111992
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=53020
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DevonDamo
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by DevonDamo »

Yep - changing the forks seems a lot of hassle. I 'installed' toe-overlap on my hybrid last year when I fitted a long front mudguard. I don't like it, but I've been too lazy to do anything about it so far and have found I've learned to live with it. One very easy solution for me would be to fit much shorter toe-clips - if I could be bothered.

However, just to make you aware of another possible option - there's a product used in the world of mountain biking to lengthen a bike's head angle to improve the handling on steep descents. I have no idea whether you could get it to fit your bike, or whether the slacker angle would be enough to get rid of the toe-overlap, but here it is:

https://canecreek.com/product/angleset/
pwa
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by pwa »

How much toe overlap?

If it is by a few mm, new shoes with a shorter toe box may be the solution. I moved from Shimano shoes to Specialized for that reason. I found that when I got a good fit that had the right width around the toes, with Shimano I ended up with about 1cm of empty shoe in front of my toes, and on one bike that was just enough to clip the mudguard. A change of brand gave me a shorter shoe that fits just as well but without the useless extra projection at the front.
flat tyre
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by flat tyre »

I've got toe overlap on 2 of my bikes with mudguards fitted. I don't find it a problem, just have to remember not to pedal when cornering sharply. The times I actually have to manoeuvre around a bend tight enough to cause potential for toe overlap to occur I find are very rare and it's easy to position the pedals to that there's no clash. If I do need to pedal and corner sharply (ironically this usually occurs when travelling on a piece of "cycling infrastructure", e.g. cyclepath bridge ramp), I can get round by pedalling short strokes instead of complete rotations. One other solution is to unclip (if using clips) and move your foot back on the pedal whilst making the turn.
Mike Sales
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by Mike Sales »

flat tyre wrote:I've got toe overlap on 2 of my bikes with mudguards fitted. I don't find it a problem, just have to remember not to pedal when cornering sharply. The times I actually have to manoeuvre around a bend tight enough to cause potential for toe overlap to occur I find are very rare and it's easy to position the pedals to that there's no clash. If I do need to pedal and corner sharply (ironically this usually occurs when travelling on a piece of "cycling infrastructure", e.g. cyclepath bridge ramp), I can get round by pedalling short strokes instead of complete rotations. One other solution is to unclip (if using clips) and move your foot back on the pedal whilst making the turn.


I had a bike with the problem and found that I could live with it too.
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9494arnold
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by 9494arnold »

I had an Ultra Short Wheelbase TT bike that had bucket loads of overlap ( with Toe Clips and Straps, conventional shoe plates)
A dream when time trialling mostly In a straight line , not so good if pressed into more general riding.

If it's minimal (from what you say I an thinking you are on modern cleat system) is there capacity to edge your plates forward to eliminate it.?
amediasatex
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by amediasatex »

Mike Sales wrote:I had a bike with the problem and found that I could live with it too.


I think it not only depends on the rider but also the intended use of the bike whether or not it'll be an issue for you.

I have a couple of bikes with a lot of overlap, it never bothers me on them as they're bikes for riding fast on open roads, you barely ever 'turn' the bars except when you come to a stop and then it's easy to deal with. I've ridden thousands of miles and never had an 'oops' moment.

On the other hand... on my city/errand bike toe overlap annoys the heck out of me, and nearly killed me twice, I spend far more time at slow speed, turning tightly etc. and often with a bit of luggage too, not to mention 'the unexpected' stops induced by cars and meanderthals walking around not looking where they're going.

Likewise I can deal with it when touring, but it's annoying when you end up in a town having to manoeuvre, or crawling up a hill at a fraction of walking pace tacking from side to side to stay upright.

It can also be a big hindrance offroad, if you're type who enjoys dirty shenanigans as part of your exercise routine.


Back to the original question:

- A fork with a bit more offset can cure if you've only got a few mm of overlap, but will change the handling, that might be bad, it might be good, depends on the bike and you preference.

- Shorter cranks can also cure it if it's only a few mm, but will change the fit, that might be bad, it might be good depending on your anatomy and preference.

- Different foot position or shoes could cure it too, but will again change the fit, that might be bad, it might be good depending on your anatomy and preference.

- Wider pedal stance/Q-factor could also get you a few mm clearance, but again, has implications for fit...

All or a combination together could net you ~20-30mm of space, but as above, it's not 'free' space, it comes with consequences which may or may not be tolerable.
Psamathe
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by Psamathe »

I'm no expert and my own bike has significant tow overlap. I'd say (personal opinion), if you already have the bike and it's not caused problems then don't focus on it. The more you focus on something the more of an issue it can become. I never thought about mine and it has never been an issue.

Ian
Jdsk
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by Jdsk »

MIB2020 wrote:Bearing in mind I am no athlete, if toe overlap is an issue on a bike, would replacing the forks with a more “bent” designed eliminate this ? I understand other things would change but considering I get on well with a wide range of bikes including a 1931 sunbeam gents tourer I am used to “odd handling”.

What are your specific concerns... understanding the problem, removing it on a bike you've already got, avoiding it on a bike you're considering buying... ?

Jonathan
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531colin
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by 531colin »

MIB2020 wrote:Bearing in mind I am no athlete, if toe overlap is an issue on a bike, would replacing the forks with a more “bent” designed eliminate this ? I understand other things would change but considering I get on well with a wide range of bikes including a 1931 sunbeam gents tourer I am used to “odd handling”.


If its your Fuji Sportif from this thread https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=142770 I would caution against increasing the fork offset unless you simultaneously decrease the head tube angle. This bike already has pretty quick steering.

(people often make the mistake of thinking that long fork offset produces slow steering. Your 1931 Sunbeam will have long offset forks, but the slow steering is due to the associated slack head angle)
MIB2020
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by MIB2020 »

Much appreciated all, will take my time to read through details. It’s a problem off road mainly, tight turns on single track uphill when I need to push on, looking for 50mm ish, will look at shortening front mudguard. I have already moved my cleats forward on my Shoes. Don’t really want to reduce front tyre size but again another option. Crank length is very interesting. Cheers.
mattsccm
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by mattsccm »

Don't bother. Too many things need to be right. 50mm is too much to gain from pedal position. 5 mm would be bad! Bet you can't gain 10 from the mudguard. Equally crank length is fairly fixed for your body size.
Overlap is a pain for some people, not for others. You learn to ignore it mostly.
Harsh reality. Wrong bike.
slowster
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by slowster »

If it's the Fuji Sportif, then by my reckoning the front centre measurement on that frame is only 587mm. I would expect a touring bike in that size to have a front centre measurement of at least around 610mm. By way of examples, Spa's 54cm Tourer has a front centre measurement of 625mm, and on the long version of Spa's Wayfarer it's 635mm.

Spending a lot on the Fuji trying to make something which it was never designed to be, is just wasting money that would be better being saved towards a new bike or frame that is suited to you and the riding you do.
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