Toe Overlap

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
MIB2020
Posts: 167
Joined: 24 Feb 2020, 10:46am

Re: Toe Overlap

Post by MIB2020 »

Not sure where the Fuji came from , it’s a Ribble CGR TI sport. Looking at other gravel bikes it seems a pretty standard issue, unless I fit 650b wheels , which I don’t really want to do.
pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Toe Overlap

Post by pwa »

Ribble don't seem to want to share their "front centres" figures.
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-cgr-ti/
But from wheelbase and chainstay figures I'd say close to 60cm, which means your toes more than an inch closer to the tyre that with a Spa Wayfarer. That is a lot closer. I think their Elan (more of a gravel bike) starts at 60cm in the smallest size but that goes up in the larger sizes. "Front centres" is the thing to check on any frame if you want to know your toes aren't going to clip the wheel / mudguard.
Last edited by pwa on 26 Jan 2021, 7:24pm, edited 1 time in total.
amediasatex
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Joined: 2 Nov 2015, 12:51pm
Location: Sunny Devon! just East of the Moor

Re: Toe Overlap

Post by amediasatex »

MIB2020 wrote:looking for 50mm ish


That's just too much to try and reclaim IMO.
MIB2020
Posts: 167
Joined: 24 Feb 2020, 10:46am

Re: Toe Overlap

Post by MIB2020 »

Now don’t laugh, there’s a lot to this cycling lark! Measured accurately I needed about 40mm.
Got about 5mm pushing cleats hard forward, lost about 10mm from thick old mtb overshoes ( I don’t like cold feet) and nearly 20mm from adjusting the mudguard very close to tyre.
So I am nearly there. Thinking a shorter mudguard but not over keen as it does a fantastic job ( never understand fashion before function on a bike) and fitting a skinny tyre 35c ( skinny to me) as I have wtb nano 40c at present.
Will update as I go.
MIB2020
Posts: 167
Joined: 24 Feb 2020, 10:46am

Re: Toe Overlap

Post by MIB2020 »

No, can’t be done without major surgery, looks like if I keep it will have to stay clear of technical single track as no matter how confident you are if you can’t pedal hard as you turn hard certain climbs are out of bounds.
Should manufacturers have a duty to point out this design flaw when advertising a bike supposedly capable of tackling any terrain?
slowster
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by slowster »

MIB2020 wrote:Should manufacturers have a duty to point out this design flaw when advertising a bike supposedly capable of tackling any terrain?

No, because there is an ISO standard regarding the minimum distance between the pedal axle and the tyre (or mudguard if applicable). Your bike should comply with that standard. Even if a bike does comply with the standard, it is not a complete guarantee of no overlap, since that will also depend upon some variables which are not under the manufacturer's control, e.g. customers with large feet and/or who have cleats at the rear of the slots, customers who move the mudguard further from the tyre to increase mud clearance, and customers who fit wider/taller tyres.

As pwa has indicated, if you know what the front centre measurement is then that, combined with tyre size and mudguard clearance, will give the best indication of likely toe overlap, especially if you can compare it with the front centre measurement of your current bike (assuming same wheel size, same/similar tyre width etc.).
Bmblbzzz
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Location: From here to there.

Re: Toe Overlap

Post by Bmblbzzz »

slowster wrote:
MIB2020 wrote:Should manufacturers have a duty to point out this design flaw when advertising a bike supposedly capable of tackling any terrain?

No, because there is an ISO standard regarding the minimum distance between the pedal axle and the tyre (or mudguard if applicable). Your bike should comply with that standard. Even if a bike does comply with the standard, it is not a complete guarantee of no overlap, since that will also depend upon some variables which are not under the manufacturer's control, e.g. customers with large feet and/or who have cleats at the rear of the slots, customers who move the mudguard further from the tyre to increase mud clearance, and customers who fit wider/taller tyres.

As pwa has indicated, if you know what the front centre measurement is then that, combined with tyre size and mudguard clearance, will give the best indication of likely toe overlap, especially if you can compare it with the front centre measurement of your current bike (assuming same wheel size, same/similar tyre width etc.).

That's interesting. I never dreamt of such a thing! Do you happen to know the ISO reference and/or the clearance? And has it been incorporated into BS6102? (Perhaps it's unreasonable to expect you to know such detail, but if I don't ask, I won't know!)
slowster
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by slowster »

Bmblbzzz wrote:Perhaps it's unreasonable to expect you to know such detail, but if I don't ask, I won't know!

I think it's very reasonable to expect me to know such detail, but I don't. So despite your having asked, I'm afraid you still won't know.
pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Toe Overlap

Post by pwa »

We can play around with fine tuning of the mudguard, and even moving the cleats forward, but sometimes you just have to accept that with the feet that nature has given you, and the fixed distance between the bottom bracket and the front hub, you are limited in tyre size. My wife's bike is a very admirable machine, cobbled together over the years, but its one flaw is that with a mudguard she is limited to a 28mm tyre on the front. It is just the way it is. Her toes clear the mudguard by about 1 or 2mm. She can easily have a 32mm tyre on the back, and she does, but 28mm is the limit on the front. I think the truth is that if you can't be content with a narrower tyre up front, your frame and forks are not right for you. My wife's front tyre is a Panaracer Gravelking 28mm and has coped with some off road use.

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/panaracer-grav ... -road-tyre
MIB2020
Posts: 167
Joined: 24 Feb 2020, 10:46am

Re: Toe Overlap

Post by MIB2020 »

Well... size 8 feet I would think are perhaps be a little below the “average” men’s size 9? I suggest Ribble made compromises, understand this and yet still market the bike as a excellent off road machine, perhaps so but only downhill , with your feet held in specific position.
Similar to my Sonder Broken Road “ adventure bike” that can supposedly take 2.8” tyres, just don’t go on an adventure anywhere muddy as no one, I repeat that, no one makes full mudguards to fit that bike with anything like a 2.4” tyre and above. They say they do but they don’t. I have 3 bodged sets from different manufacturers.
pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Toe Overlap

Post by pwa »

MIB2020 wrote:Well... size 8 feet I would think are perhaps be a little below the “average” men’s size 9? I suggest Ribble made compromises, understand this and yet still market the bike as a excellent off road machine, perhaps so but only downhill , with your feet held in specific position.
Similar to my Sonder Broken Road “ adventure bike” that can supposedly take 2.8” tyres, just don’t go on an adventure anywhere muddy as no one, I repeat that, no one makes full mudguards to fit that bike with anything like a 2.4” tyre and above. They say they do but they don’t. I have 3 bodged sets from different manufacturers.


It isn't much use to you now, but if and when you ever buy a replacement bike you should measure the "front centres" of your existing bike, estimate how much extra foot room you need, then only buy a bike that has a "front centres" figure that gives you that. Don't rely on marketing guff, look at the figures that matter. I always look at the "front centres" when I get a frameset. You live and learn.
Bmblbzzz
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Location: From here to there.

Re: Toe Overlap

Post by Bmblbzzz »

MIB2020 wrote:Well... size 8 feet I would think are perhaps be a little below the “average” men’s size 9?

Somewhat of a digression, but I know someone who's a designer for Clarks, and they use size 8 for testing because it is, apparently, the average UK men's size. But is that mean, mode or median? And how does it compare to the world average?
MIB2020
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Joined: 24 Feb 2020, 10:46am

Re: Toe Overlap

Post by MIB2020 »

I may need to add another bike to the fleet then, I wonder if it was titanium would the wife realise?
pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Toe Overlap

Post by pwa »

MIB2020 wrote:I may need to add another bike to the fleet then, I wonder if it was titanium would the wife realise?


:lol:
I used to work alongside a man who always got his bikes as parts because he reckoned his wife didn't notice a new bike if it appeared in instalments. He also had the parts delivered to him at work, never at home. I have a wife who accepts the occasional extravagance.
Bmblbzzz
Posts: 6249
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Toe Overlap

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Yeah, my wife buys new shoes in parts; the heel one week, the upper the next week, and so on, then puts them all together and has a new pair of shoes. She thinks I don't notice either. :roll:

Stereotypes much?
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