Toe Overlap

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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531colin
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by 531colin »

Firstly, the bit about the wrong bike was my mistake I got confused over two forum names which both look like a bad hand as Scrabble.

Here in one of the threads Vorpal linked earlier https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=53020&start=15 Chris Juden discusses the regulations (such as they are) on toe clearance. 90 or 100mm in front of the pedal centre won't give you much room; I guess thats before you fit guards or bigger tyres.

If anybody wants to play with frame dimensions, there are a couple of useful websites I know of, although I don't have the ability to work them!
One called Bicycle Forest has a free frame design CAD, and one called Geometry Geeks is an open source of bike geometries......enjoy!
prestavalve
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by prestavalve »

Remove a toe.
MIB2020
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by MIB2020 »

Colin, that’s an interesting link you sent , thanks.
I wonder what Ribble would say if I advise I can’t use the bike for what I intended ? As the link suggests they are probably in the clear regarding BS Standards but the fact remains it’s not just toes , I have fallen off because of this and came close to hitting a car when starting off uphill on road. The people that say it does not cause them concern are talking rubbish if an emergency occurs and you need to turn sharply it can throw you from the bike.
slowster
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by slowster »

1. What is the front centre measurement? (Get a tape measure and measure it)

2. What size frame is it?

3. What tyres are fitted and what width are they? (The standard builds seem typically to have 700 x 40 Schwalbe G One tyres)

4. What mudguards are fitted*, and what is the size of the gap in mm between the tyre and mudguard where your foot is hitting the mudguard?

* The only model on Ribble's website shown with mudguards fitted has a very short front mudguard. That suggests to me that the bike was not designed with the intention that it should be able to be fitted with normal full sized mudguards and still have no/low toe overlap.

Image
MIB2020
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by MIB2020 »

Just been on “live chat” with Ribble, the more I think about the more I am annoyed. I spoke to them at length prior to purchase , checking sizes as per their recommendations,they never mentioned toe overlap , I did not know what it was and I can’t believe I have put up with this for so long. It’s because I am relatively new to this type of bike. They will email me their response.
MIB2020
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by MIB2020 »

Slowster , I asked about mudguards yesterday as I had the upgraded SKS fitted, they advise they are exactly the same length with exception of the mudflap, I think as you do the standard looks shorter.
pwa
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by pwa »

The guards in that pic are too short to do a good job. You would still get spray all over your feet / shins and a fair bit up your back.
pwa
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by pwa »

The guards in that pic are too short to do a good job. You would still get spray all over your feet / shins.

It is as if they have designed a frameset to allow use of guards but only with road tyres of say 25mm, ignoring the fact that the bike is meant to take bigger tyres. Ribble have done this half baked stuff before.
MIB2020
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by MIB2020 »

It has 40c Nanos fitted, if I went 650b with the same tyre how much would I gain ?
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531colin
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by 531colin »

The rim bead seat diameters are.....
700c.....622mm
650B.....584mm
So the difference in diameter is 38mm, difference in radius 19mm.
So a fair difference, but maybe not enough. (bottom bracket will drop by the same amount)
MIB2020
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by MIB2020 »

Cheers Colin, will wait to see what Ribble come back with.
If you purchased a car to drive off road and when you did in threw you off your seat I think the car manufacturers would have a heart attack.
Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by Marcus Aurelius »

The toe overlap on my Bianchi Oltre XR4 is horrendous. Normally I ride with 170mm cranks, this came with 172.5mm cranks, and the frame design is such that the toe overlap is more severe than on the non compact frames I ride. Even with shorter cranks, I’d still get a bit of overlap, so I have to be very careful on any tight turns.
MIB2020
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by MIB2020 »

Hi Marcus, if I am correct that’s a road bike and it’s something you could live with, but on single track , forest trails, muddy canal towpaths etc you need to be able to turn sharply whilst pedalling, that’s what I can’t live with.
PH
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by PH »

MIB2020 wrote:Hi Marcus, if I am correct that’s a road bike and it’s something you could live with, but on single track , forest trails, muddy canal towpaths etc you need to be able to turn sharply whilst pedalling, that’s what I can’t live with.

Have you measured it, as suggested up thread? Might also be interesting to compare it to your other bikes.
Someone has calculated that the front centre is around 600mm and you've said you're looking for an extra 40mm. That sounds a lot to me, my tourers are around 620 - 630, and I don't have a problem using 40mm tyres and guards even with my size 11's! Maybe the estimate was wrong? Or there's some other factor in play? Have you looked at the front centre spec of other similar bikes? If the Ribble offering is significantly different that may be a point in your favour.
When the CTC had a technical officer, they helped a local rider get a refund on a bike they'd bought with toe overlap. I can't remember the details, but it was before gravel bikes were a thing, so there's some hope.
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CJ
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Re: Toe Overlap

Post by CJ »

slowster wrote:
MIB2020 wrote:Should manufacturers have a duty to point out this design flaw when advertising a bike supposedly capable of tackling any terrain?

No, because there is an ISO standard regarding the minimum distance between the pedal axle and the tyre (or mudguard if applicable). Your bike should comply with that standard.

There is indeed a standard, but it's a bad joke.

Actually there's a suite of standards for different types of bikes, each of which include a clause which PRETENDS to take care of this. But it doesn't. If you look at the measurements they're good for something like a UK size 6 shoe!

So provided you have extraordinarily small feet, you might be in the clear. But not if you fit mudguards. Here again the standard lets manufacturers PRETEND to care. If the bike has mudguard fittings, there is supposed to be clearance (for the delightfully tiny-toes shoe remember) with a guard fitted. But the standard does not say how far from the tyre. That's left to the manufacturer. Who may insist that a miss is as good as a mile.

In 2011 I wrote a comprehensive post about this. I've brought the matter up at British Standards meetings. But CTC/CUK abolished the post of Technical Officer before I was able to take that much further. So nothing has changed for the better. Bikes remain unnecessarily less safe and a bit less convenient to use than they easily might be, if they were designed for purpose rather than to ape what's good for the Tour de France.
Chris Juden
One lady owner, never raced or jumped.
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