if a Moulton would...

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Chris56
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Joined: 3 May 2020, 9:30pm

Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by Chris56 »

Could the problem be with the Geoff bars? They put your hands in a position that cannot be replicated with drop bars.

As the problem occurs with your flat bars but not your drops Id go with Colin's advice and look at the fit of your bars and adapt as necessary.

If your bars are set up with the correct stack/reach then what about some regular flat bars with bar ends? It will then put your hands in the same position as when riding on the hoods.

Id go with the cheaper solutions first before splashing out on a whole new bike (unless of course you really want a Moulton!! :wink: )
iandusud
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by iandusud »

RodT wrote: 9 Apr 2021, 8:22am MickF seems to have blown the Moulton idea out of the water.
You don't want to listen to him :lol: Seriously, I don't know where you live but if you can get to Harrogate you'd be very welcome try my or my wife's Moulton. Interestingly my wife suffers with carpel tunnel syndrome and I have fitted her Moulton with porteur bars and she has no problems with it.

Ian
Cyril Haearn
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Mick F wrote: 8 Apr 2021, 10:21pm
Cyril Haearn wrote: 8 Apr 2021, 8:14pm @MickF
I thought you rode your Moulton more than your Mercian. Care to explain why? :wink:
Yes, I do numerically speaking.

Any distance over 30odd miles would be Mercian out of choice, but I'm riding fewer miles these days and exploring more, so Moulton fits in better.

Yes, my Moulton is heavier than original, because I've fitted a hub dynamo and a 3sp SA, but compare the weights here.
I weighed the bikes only this week.

Moulton 14.2Kg = 31lbs 4.9oz
Mercian 10.6Kg = 23lbs 5.9oz
Difference 3.6Kg = 7lbs 15oz
Moulton is heavier than Mercian by a third (ish).
Illogical, Mr Spock, Illogical, choosing to ride the heavier machine :wink:
I do likewise, many people might not understand why I ride fixed mostly, forby I have another perfectly good cycle with freewheel andseven gears
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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iandusud
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by iandusud »

Mick F wrote: 8 Apr 2021, 10:21pm Moulton 14.2Kg = 31lbs 4.9oz
Mercian 10.6Kg = 23lbs 5.9oz
Difference 3.6Kg = 7lbs 15oz
Moulton is heavier than Mercian by a third (ish).
And when you include the rider's weight? :)
RodT
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Location: Cornwall

Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by RodT »

Chris56, I think you’re right. Yesterday I did a hilly 25 on my drop- bar road bike and there were no after-effects. Well, not in my wrists. Today I rode to Sainsbury’s and back, all of a mile, and my wrist hurt so much I could hardly unload my shopping. And that was on the bike with Geoff bars. A similar situation occurred last week. Also the road bike has bar-end shifters; the shopping bike has STIs, which obviously require a lot of wrist action.
It’s looking like a pattern.
9494arnold
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by 9494arnold »

I ride exclusively drop bars, several different machines , including upright Trikes, and have had Carpal Tunnel op on both wrists.
As a precaution I now use Weightlifters Mitts which are similar to Cycling Mitts but have a wrist strap as well.
All of the suggestions about different bars / padding/ small changes in position all have some merit.
Plus I think,I used to have too much pressure in my tyres (100psi plus) a hangover from my brief time trialling/track racing days.And slightly wider tyres, even the pros have drifted away from 19/20 mm tyres on race bikes.
Many years ago I had a brief encounter with a Mk3 Moulton. I know it's a bit of a Marmite thing but I couldn't wait to get rid of it, it felt like the back wheel was falling off (it was perfectly fine and properly adjusted) .
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Mick F
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by Mick F »

iandusud wrote: 9 Apr 2021, 4:54pm
Mick F wrote: 8 Apr 2021, 10:21pm Moulton 14.2Kg = 31lbs 4.9oz
Mercian 10.6Kg = 23lbs 5.9oz
Difference 3.6Kg = 7lbs 15oz
Moulton is heavier than Mercian by a third (ish).
And when you include the rider's weight? :)
The heavier the rider, the less the overall weight difference is I suppose, but you try pushing my Moulton up a hill, and then try the Mercian. The difference is astounding. This is the same as riding up a steep hill of course.

Whilst on the subject of the differences, try a roll-out test Moulton vs 700c road bike.
Even before I fitted a dynohub and the 3spSA, the roll-out was much shorter than Mercian. Still not much different as it was, even now.

My favourite place for a roll-out test is at Gunnislake Railway Station carpark. There's a lamp post where I can line up the front wheel with a foot down on the kerb. Raise the foot - do not pedal! - and off I go down a gentle slope of about 10yds or so, then the carpark levels out. Doing it with Mercian, the bike runs away nicely and quickly, but Moulton is much slower from the off and visibly runs slower and stops a good 20ft short of where Mercian stops.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.51655 ... 312!8i6656

You can see the blue lamp post where I start on the extreme left.
Mick F. Cornwall
iandusud
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by iandusud »

Mick F wrote: 10 Apr 2021, 9:32am
iandusud wrote: 9 Apr 2021, 4:54pm
Mick F wrote: 8 Apr 2021, 10:21pm Moulton 14.2Kg = 31lbs 4.9oz
Mercian 10.6Kg = 23lbs 5.9oz
Difference 3.6Kg = 7lbs 15oz
Moulton is heavier than Mercian by a third (ish).
And when you include the rider's weight? :)
The heavier the rider, the less the overall weight difference is I suppose, but you try pushing my Moulton up a hill, and then try the Mercian. The difference is astounding. This is the same as riding up a steep hill of course.

Whilst on the subject of the differences, try a roll-out test Moulton vs 700c road bike.
Even before I fitted a dynohub and the 3spSA, the roll-out was much shorter than Mercian. Still not much different as it was, even now.

My favourite place for a roll-out test is at Gunnislake Railway Station carpark. There's a lamp post where I can line up the front wheel with a foot down on the kerb. Raise the foot - do not pedal! - and off I go down a gentle slope of about 10yds or so, then the carpark levels out. Doing it with Mercian, the bike runs away nicely and quickly, but Moulton is much slower from the off and visibly runs slower and stops a good 20ft short of where Mercian stops.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.51655 ... 312!8i6656

You can see the blue lamp post where I start on the extreme left.
Hi Mick, I don't doubt your experience with your bikes. To what do you attribute the difference? Wheel size, tyres? I can only comment on my experience with a 17" wheeled Moulton. When I got it 32 years ago it replaced a 700C fast tourer (actually a Falcon Professional race bike that I'd fitted with mudguards and a rack) running 25mm slicks. The weight difference between the two was probably a couple of pounds. The difference in ride quality was transformational. I was living in London at the time and regularly rode down to Brighton and back. One of the things that convinced to get the Moulton was when I borrowed an AM7 and promptly did my fastest ever time by some margin coming back from Brighton and feeling not beaten up. I have not ridden a TSR so can't comment on them but I do stand by what I said earlier with regard to riding style. I hear people say that you can't "honk" on a Moulton without it bobbing up and down. Well I can and do and that is with the suspension set soft. :)
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Mick F
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by Mick F »

Attribute the difference in roll-out?

Mentioned this before on a thread or two
Back in the past Up North as a kids, we made "trollies" using wooden planks and old pram wheels. Steering was by a bolt through the front onto a crossmember holding the front wheels.

No doubt you know what I'm talking about! :D

Well .......... mine had wheels of about a foot diameter. Good ball bearings and well greased and oiled, and went well.
My mate's one had big wheels maybe two feet diameter of more. Good bearings too.

We often used to race them, and one course was from a standing start from the top of the bridge over the canal. Feet down, and line us up, and then off we went.

My mate's one always, but always, went away from mine right at the start.
We tried other trollies, and the bigger wheeled ones always outpaced and outran the smaller wheeled ones.

So, as far as I'm aware - all else being equal - that bigger wheels roll better than smaller wheels.
Mick F. Cornwall
Nessie23
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by Nessie23 »

[quote
So, as far as I'm aware - all else being equal - that bigger wheels roll better than smaller wheels.
[/quote]

Makes sense to me, something to do with flywheel effect. I believe Moment of inertia (I) for a wheel is:
I = 1/2 M*r*r
Where M= Mass and r= Radius

Therefore larger wheel = greater inertia.
Jdsk
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by Jdsk »

That depends on whether roll better means maintain their momentum better or require less power to drive.

Jonathan
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Mick F
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by Mick F »

This subject has been discussed before. :wink:

All things being equal ................. a bigger wheeled bike accelerates easier than a smaller wheeled bike.

Try it and report back.
I have .......... endlessly.
Mick F. Cornwall
Jdsk
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by Jdsk »

Mick F wrote: 10 Apr 2021, 2:58pm This subject has been discussed before.

All things being equal ................. a bigger wheeled bike accelerates easier than a smaller wheeled bike.
Has anyone produced an explanation?

(The larger moment of inertia (as above) would result in the opposite effect.)

Jonathan
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531colin
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by 531colin »

If there is a fixed bump of a fixed height, then the bike will be raised by that amount, whatever the wheel size.
BUT a small wheel will produce a rapid rise, robbing more kinetic energy than the slower rise of a bigger wheel.
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Mick F
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by Mick F »

Jdsk wrote: 10 Apr 2021, 3:01pm Has anyone produced an explanation?
As I said, try it and report back.

Take the argument to extreme ........... I like this way of looking at things.
Same "vehicle" on a totally smooth slope down to a totally flat and smooth runway. All indoors and accurately measurable.
One has 1" diameter wheels on perfect bearings, and the other has 2ft diameter wheels on perfect bearings. Both vehicles have solid disk wheels.

Which one accelerates faster and goes further?
Mick F. Cornwall
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