if a Moulton would...

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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Mick F
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by Mick F »

iandusud wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 7:14amOut of interest what tyres are you using on your TSR and your Mercian?
Mercian has always had narrow tyres. Since going metric, they've been 23mm Vitoria Rubino Pro, and before that same tyres but at 20mm. Suffered a couple of pinch punctures, so went up to 23mm.
Before the Rubino, I had a variety of makes but always less than an inch wide.
Always high pressures 120psi rear and 80psi front

Moulton came with 28mm Schwalbe Durano which were awful. After chatting on here, I went to 28mm Continental GP which were very good, but the rear wore out very quickly. Tried Continental Contact Sport 28mm, but they weren't that good.

Found 28mm Nutrak on eBay for dirt cheap. Bought some and was extremely impressed so bought some more. I now have four spares!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/12012058385?iid=153523271178
I paid half what they are selling for now.
Thread on here about them.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=135643

Great tyres, better than the Conti GPs too. Also, seem to wear well too.
100psi rear and 80psi front.
Mick F. Cornwall
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speedsixdave
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by speedsixdave »

horizon wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 11:37pm
Chris56 wrote: 15 Apr 2021, 9:52am
Would narrow flat bar with bar ends help?

https://www.rutlandcycling.com/componen ... ps__372606
I used my Ergon 4 grips for the first time this week - three short (10 milers) hilly rides. They were utterly brilliant. The Giant you link to are much cheaper (£20 I think) compared to £55 for the Ergons but the Ergons I think have better grip design. They aren't cheap but they are brilliant: it's both the bar end and the flat palm platform that work. It's being able to turn your wrists 90 deg and vary your hand positions that provides relief, along with your wrist being supported and aligning with your arm when on the bars. I am not saying they are the panacea for the OP but they must surely be worth a try (the Ergons or the Giant).
I generally dislike flat bars because they make my wrists hurt but have them on the tandem for better control. I have the Ergon grips with the very short bar-ends and will concur that they are really good, much the best flat bar grips I've ever used. The short bar ends allow a natural wrist rotation while still maintaining control. Recommended if you must use flat bars!
Big wheels good, small wheels better.
Two saddles best!
markjohnobrien
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by markjohnobrien »

speedsixdave wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 8:46am
horizon wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 11:37pm
Chris56 wrote: 15 Apr 2021, 9:52am
Would narrow flat bar with bar ends help?

https://www.rutlandcycling.com/componen ... ps__372606
I used my Ergon 4 grips for the first time this week - three short (10 milers) hilly rides. They were utterly brilliant. The Giant you link to are much cheaper (£20 I think) compared to £55 for the Ergons but the Ergons I think have better grip design. They aren't cheap but they are brilliant: it's both the bar end and the flat palm platform that work. It's being able to turn your wrists 90 deg and vary your hand positions that provides relief, along with your wrist being supported and aligning with your arm when on the bars. I am not saying they are the panacea for the OP but they must surely be worth a try (the Ergons or the Giant).
I generally dislike flat bars because they make my wrists hurt but have them on the tandem for better control. I have the Ergon grips with the very short bar-ends and will concur that they are really good, much the best flat bar grips I've ever used. The short bar ends allow a natural wrist rotation while still maintaining control. Recommended if you must use flat bars!
Agree that Ergons are great. While I prefer drop bars, these are fantastic grips.
Raleigh Randonneur 708 (Magura hydraulic brakes); Blue Raleigh Randonneur 708 dynamo; Pearson Compass 631 tourer; Dawes One Down 631 dynamo winter bike;Raleigh Travelogue 708 tourer dynamo; Kona Sutra; Trek 920 disc Sram Force.
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speedsixdave
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by speedsixdave »

Mick F wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 4:30pm A few words in my defence.

My riding style is generally for higher gears but that doesn't stop me wanting lower gears. Hence my gearing choices for the Moulton.
The main issue I notice, is not efficiency of pedalling technique, but the lack of "go" that the bike has.

Heavy bikes - all else being equal - go faster downhill but more work going up them.
Trouble with my TSR, is that it's slower going down the hills in the first place.

It's very very noticeable riding on the self same roads as I do, Mercian vs Moulton. It's not the "bobbing" of the suspension when I pedal, just the inefficiency of design. Aerodynamics of the frame coming down hills ........ besides the extra weight going up them ......... but the weight going down doesn't help and assist like it should.

Very very noticeable indeed, and when I ride round here, I'm doing on average 100ft of ascent per mile ridden. Often 120ft per mile.
No need for defence Mick, a chap who rides as often as you can ride however and whatever he likes!

I agree that the spaceframe is inherently unaerodynamic, although how much this affects speed is hard to know. It would be interesting to compare directly against the new Moulton Flyte which is essentially a Jubilee with a fatter-tubed Y-frame. FWIW I've long thought Moulton should offer a carbon monocoque frame - the stiffest possible vehicle structure suspended from the wheels by a known and controlled amount, to paraphase Alex Moulton. Would reduce the weight somewhat too.

We know and accept that all things being equal a smaller wheel accelerates quicker, decelerates quicker and has higher rolling resistance than a larger wheel. Aerodynamics is more tricky though, and makes my brain hurt. The smaller wheel ought to move less air so be more aerodynamic, but will it create more turbulence because it spins faster? But at any given speed the edge of the wheel is moving at the same speed no matter how big the wheel is...

You sometimes see disc wheel covers for 17" wheels but I've never seen any for 20". They would be an interesting experiment. Hopefully the smaller wheel would be less affected by gusting sidewinds than a bigger wheel. Or there are the deep-section carbon HED wheels in 369 or 406 if you have deep-section pockets.

For the spaceframe Moulton used to offer rather smart frame skins (which you could also keep things inside) that I imagine smoothed the airflow somewhat. Again would be an interesting experiment. Then, as discussed elsewhere on this forum before, there's always the Zzipper front fairing or a range of increasingly-serious full fairings which turned the AM into the upright bicycle 200m world record holder that I believe it still is today.

And finally small-wheeled bikes are quicker as part of a group ride than on their own, as the small front wheel allows closer drafting of the bike in front. So just go out with your chunky mate and sit on his wheel!
Big wheels good, small wheels better.
Two saddles best!
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gazza_d
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by gazza_d »

Just reading about the spaceframe covers.

Maybe Mick should wrap his spaceframe in cling film and retest to see if it improves performance any. Although I suspect that it's the climbing performance where the Moulton lets Mick down slightly.

A tip I saw years ago was to move a Moulton's saddle as far forward as possible. I think the theory is that it shifts the weight further away from the rear suspension (although only slightly).

I always used to have my saddle further back, and this did seem to make a slight difference for me although it may have been just psychological.
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Mick F
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by Mick F »

The thing is ........

I'm comparing chalk with cheese.
The two bikes I have are very very different in every respect.
Maybe if my other bike was a tourer, or maybe I had an MTB sort of bike, the differences would be less marked.

Mercian is a lightweight, springy, fast, lively, twitchy, short wheelbase sort of bike ......... but Moulton is a heavy, soft, slow, stable sort of bike.

I can tell the difference in a couple of hundred yards from the front gate. It doesn't need uphills or downhills to feel the difference.
Mick F. Cornwall
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Re: if a Moulton would...

Post by SST »

The big wheeled variant. Downhill a 700C wheel has way more torque than a 16 or 20" rim.
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