Intriguing Hercules seat arrangement

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nez
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Intriguing Hercules seat arrangement

Post by nez »

I found the bike below on eBay. It seems to have an interesting approach to saddle position. Instead of layback there is lay forward. I wonder what is the reason? It suggests the rider would have unnaturally short arms and long legs. My guess is that the approach to bike sizing in the late 19th/early 20th century was rather different to ours. You see pictures of men with bicycles which would be ludicrously too high for us. How would they deal with traffic lights? Luckily there were none early in the 20th century. The bike also has a very long seat stay and a very short chain stay, suggesting the designer hadn't made up his mind what sort of bike they were building. I think the rider is expected to get on via a running mount/dismount. But that gear-change on the cross bar would make a very uncomfortable landing if the dismount went wrong. It appears to be what the French would call 'dans son jus' - I would love it as a restoration project, but I'm afraid my wife would see it as more clutter, and she'd be right.
Hercules bike.jpg
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Jdsk
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Re: Intriguing Hercules seat arrangement

Post by Jdsk »

How interesting.

Here's one from 1939:
Image

And a current Hercules:

Image

Jonathan

PS: Previous discussion of Hercules:
viewtopic.php?p=1530991#p1530991
leftpoole
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Re: Intriguing Hercules seat arrangement

Post by leftpoole »

Designed very sensibly to be ridden in an upright Gentleman manner. Not unlike standard seating (saddle) arrangement on today's standard version Brompton (before modification).
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531colin
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Re: Intriguing Hercules seat arrangement

Post by 531colin »

Look at the seat tube angle?
these "safety" bikes were ridden in a completely upright posture, (like the predecessor, the high ordinary) in a time when the pace of life was very different
Note also the head tube angle and matching fork offset.
Both Sturmey Archer and BSA (hub) gears originally had quadrant levers mounted on the crossbar, and a bare cable run over a pulley at the seat cluster.
Is the modern Hercules made in India?
nez
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Joined: 19 Jun 2008, 12:11am

Re: Intriguing Hercules seat arrangement

Post by nez »

Jdsk wrote: 11 Apr 2021, 10:17am How interesting.

Here's one from 1939:
Image

And a current Hercules:

Image

Jonathan

PS: Previous discussion of Hercules:
viewtopic.php?p=1530991#p1530991
Thanks. I never imagined you could buy one now. I had a Hercules when I was about 12 and started to look online to see if there was a photo of one. Mine was a much more conventional bike though - I just stumbled across that weird shaped frame.
nez
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Joined: 19 Jun 2008, 12:11am

Re: Intriguing Hercules seat arrangement

Post by nez »

531colin wrote: 11 Apr 2021, 10:30am Look at the seat tube angle?
these "safety" bikes were ridden in a completely upright posture, (like the predecessor, the high ordinary) in a time when the pace of life was very different
Note also the head tube angle and matching fork offset.
Both Sturmey Archer and BSA (hub) gears originally had quadrant levers mounted on the crossbar, and a bare cable run over a pulley at the seat cluster.
Is the modern Hercules made in India?
The *length* of the head tube. What would be the advantage, Colin? Sedate steering/long slow turns?

later - I had a look at the Indian website. There is no mention of gears and India is famous for being completely flat (not). The bikes appear to cost about £50 new - or I've done the cut and paste on rupees wrong.
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Mick F
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Re: Intriguing Hercules seat arrangement

Post by Mick F »

Nose of saddles are normally a tad to the rear of the BB, so if the seat tube is at a shallow angle, the seat would have to come forward.

Seems eminently simple to me.
Mick F. Cornwall
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Intriguing Hercules seat arrangement

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Hercules is the largest bicycle brand in the world. Or so it claims. That probably includes all the associated brands and names, not just those badged as Hercules (so Hero, Philips, Atlas, Safari, BSA and others). And yes, £50 (about 5000 rupees) sounds about right.
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531colin
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Re: Intriguing Hercules seat arrangement

Post by 531colin »

nez wrote: 11 Apr 2021, 12:15pm
531colin wrote: 11 Apr 2021, 10:30am Look at the seat tube angle?
these "safety" bikes were ridden in a completely upright posture, (like the predecessor, the high ordinary) in a time when the pace of life was very different
Note also the head tube angle and matching fork offset.
Both Sturmey Archer and BSA (hub) gears originally had quadrant levers mounted on the crossbar, and a bare cable run over a pulley at the seat cluster.**
Is the modern Hercules made in India?
The *length* of the head tube. What would be the advantage, Colin? Sedate steering/long slow turns?

later - I had a look at the Indian website. There is no mention of gears and India is famous for being completely flat (not). The bikes appear to cost about £50 new - or I've done the cut and paste on rupees wrong.
The length of the head tube is an inevitable consequence of the height of the seat tube and a horizontal top tube. :wink:
Steering characteristics are governed by head tube angle and fork offset https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_a ... e_geometry
** I think cable outer only came about with cable brakes
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Mick F
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Re: Intriguing Hercules seat arrangement

Post by Mick F »

nez wrote: 11 Apr 2021, 12:15pmThe bikes appear to cost about £50 new - or I've done the cut and paste on rupees wrong.
When I was in India (Cochin) in 1971, there were 18 rupees the the pound. I remember that figure well.
Seems like it's just over 100 nowadays.
https://themoneyconverter.com/GBP/INR
Mick F. Cornwall
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Intriguing Hercules seat arrangement

Post by Bmblbzzz »

80 when I was there about ten years ago. It's fallen and still falling.
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