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Cycling_Man
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Joined: 7 Apr 2021, 12:41pm

Help Of Choosing Correct Frame Size (Road Bike)

Post by Cycling_Man »

Hi Guys. This is my first post. I wanted to come to a forum where people were knowlegable about cycling to get some advice.

I wanted to know if you could give me some insight into the correct frame size I would need for a road bike. I have been doing lots of research on this but it's a little confusing with different websites saying different things and different manufacturers having different sizing and what not so wondered if any of you could help me and maybe even someone with similar proportions to me could give some advice on what they chose too.

For the record I am 189cm tall (6ft 2in) with an inside leg measurement of around 88-90cm. I found it quite hard to accurately measure this but believe it's around those numbers.

I was looking on Giant's website and they suggest for the bike I was looking at (Giant Contend Sl 1 2019) a large. I then went to treks website and they suggested a size 61 frame (Trek Domane AL 2). However I am a little confused because from some of the calculations I did it says a 58 might be best.

I'm just a little confused to be honest so maybe some of you guys can help. Thanks, Cycling_Man

Giant's Website Sizing - https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/contend-2
Treks Website Sizing - https://www.trekbikes.com/ie/en_IE/bike ... black_grey

EDIT

Just a quick edit to ask if it is possible if you could give me some size guides for a few different brands of bike as I know frame sizes differer between brands. If you think you can do that I would like to know what size frame you think I need for example on these bikes:

Trek Domane Al 2 - https://www.trekbikes.com/ie/en_IE/bike ... c/p/33083/
Giant Contend SL 1 (2019) - https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/contend-sl-1-2019
Specialized Allez - https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/allez ... 90020-7244

I've looked at the size guides for these and for the Trek they recommend a 61, the Giant recommend Large (don't give a number) and the Specialized recommend a 58. I was wondering why they all give me a different size and if you could maybe give some advice on what might be best for them.

Thanks in advance, Cycling_Man.
Jdsk
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Re: Help Of Choosing Correct Frame Size (Road Bike)

Post by Jdsk »

Welcome.

Where are you?

Will you be able to go somewhere to try them?

Jonathan
Jamesh
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Joined: 2 Jan 2017, 5:56pm

Re: Help Of Choosing Correct Frame Size (Road Bike)

Post by Jamesh »

As Jonathan says you would be wise to try them.

I was thinking about a 60cm frame.

However some frames are more compact than others especially giant ones.

Also different people like different sized bikes my freind rides a 21" bike all the time which, having ridden on it feels awful to me, but he likes it along with narrow bars... Go figure!

Cheers James
iandusud
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Re: Help Of Choosing Correct Frame Size (Road Bike)

Post by iandusud »

The most important measurement is the effective top tube length. This will determine the reach to the bars (along with the stem length of course). The next one is the head tube length which will (along with other factors such as tyre clearance, stem spacers and stem angle) determine the height of the bars (the overall height of the front end is often given as the "stack"). FWIW I have among other bikes a Giant Defy which has more or less the same geometry as the Giant Contend. I am 6'1" with a 90cm inside leg, and have size L which I find a very good fit and very comfortable. I would suggest that this would probably be the correct size for you. The danger with going for a larger frame is that the reach to the bars could be uncomfortable, particularly over longer rides. The general rule of thumb is if you fit between two sizes go for the smaller one. As you are looking at endurance type bikes I presume you are looking for something that you can ride all day rather than race on so avoid too long a top tube.
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531colin
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Re: Help Of Choosing Correct Frame Size (Road Bike)

Post by 531colin »

What are you riding at the moment?
I randomly went to the first website you linked, which was Giant.
If you click on "geometry" it takes you to a list of numbers, and a diagram.
"reach" is the horizontal distance from the bottom bracket (where the pedals rotate) to the top of the head tube (steering). This dimension tells you how far away the handlebars will be
"stack" is the vertical distance from the bottom bracket to the top of the head tube. this tells you how high (low!) the handlebars will be.
If you are not used to a modern road bike, the handlebars will feel very low, and very far away when you start.
Reach and Stack are dimensions which I would use to compare not only different bikes, but different sizes of the same bike.
In general, a "larger" size bike will give you the benefit of higher bars (bigger stack dimension) at the cost of the bars being further away (bigger reach dimension).
I think you should be looking for a tall stack, and a short reach. However, its cheap and easy to fit a shorter handlebar stem to reduce reach.....20mm reduction is easy. (dimension O on the Giant site)
Last edited by 531colin on 7 Apr 2021, 4:33pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cycling_Man
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Re: Help Of Choosing Correct Frame Size (Road Bike)

Post by Cycling_Man »

Jdsk wrote: 7 Apr 2021, 2:36pm Welcome.

Where are you?

Will you be able to go somewhere to try them?

Jonathan
Jamesh wrote: 7 Apr 2021, 2:56pm As Jonathan says you would be wise to try them.

I was thinking about a 60cm frame.

However some frames are more compact than others especially giant ones.

Also different people like different sized bikes my freind rides a 21" bike all the time which, having ridden on it feels awful to me, but he likes it along with narrow bars... Go figure!

Cheers James
Thanks for getting back to me guys. Unfortunately I live in the middle of nowhere so am very limited in where I can go. The only places I could go to possible try a bike is a local bike shop or Halfords. There is no other place such as Decathlon where I am unfortunately. I went to my local bike shop and asked what size he thinks I needed. He said something like an XL but I don't think I do because I went to look at a XL Giant Bike second hand and I felt like I was stretching a little for the handlebars. I then went to Halfords and they had no bikes that I could try. The guy wasn't very helpful. He didn't seem like he wanted to help and just told me to look at the size guide online and I told him I have but I was confused because other sites say different things so wanted to get some advice from someone who knows what they are talking about and all he said was something like "I'm not sure what you want me to do", like I want you to maybe give some advice on what you think or what might be best. I knew I wouldn't be able to try any bikes as I know they aren't doing that at the moment but I was hoping to talk to someone knowledgeable about road bikes who could maybe guide me in the right direction and give me their input on what they think would be best for my measurements. I wasn't expecting him to give me all my answers but was hoping that he might of knows a little bit of information about how to know your right size. Anyway I left Halfords after about 2 minutes in there haha. That's my two options basically down so that's why I am turning to you guys haha.
iandusud wrote: 7 Apr 2021, 3:54pm The most important measurement is the effective top tube length. This will determine the reach to the bars (along with the stem length of course). The next one is the head tube length which will (along with other factors such as tyre clearance, stem spacers and stem angle) determine the height of the bars (the overall height of the front end is often given as the "stack"). FWIW I have among other bikes a Giant Defy which has more or less the same geometry as the Giant Contend. I am 6'1" with a 90cm inside leg, and have size L which I find a very good fit and very comfortable. I would suggest that this would probably be the correct size for you. The danger with going for a larger frame is that the reach to the bars could be uncomfortable, particularly over longer rides. The general rule of thumb is if you fit between two sizes go for the smaller one. As you are looking at endurance type bikes I presume you are looking for something that you can ride all day rather than race on so avoid too long a top tube.
Thank you for your reply and I'm glad that you are similar to me in measurements and I believe you are right. I went to go see a second hand Giant Contend SL 1. It was an XL frame and I just felt like I was reaching a little. Also from the research I have done I found that they either say the most important thing to consider is the effective top tube length or the stack and reach, are these one in the same and is there a way to determine my stack and reach? Also I agree with you on the fact that it's best to go for a smaller size as they say it's easier to make a smaller bike fit a larger person than it is a larger bike fit a smaller person I believe.



One thing that confuses me are the frame measurements. For example what is a 58? What does it actually mean? I know that it is a measurement of the bike but from where to where because I look at the specs of a 58 bike and can't see any measurement of 58cm.

One other thing that confuses me is the fact that the sizes of the parts are different for different bikes. For example, The Specialized Allez and the Trek Domane in both a 58 size have two different effective top tube lengths. The Allez 58 has a measurement of 57.9 cm where as the trek 58 has a measurement of 56.7cm. Why are the effective top tube lengths different for bikes that both measure a 58? This relates back to the top question too about what actually does a 58 bike mean?

Thanks for your kind replies and your help guys.
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531colin
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Re: Help Of Choosing Correct Frame Size (Road Bike)

Post by 531colin »

[quote=531colin post_id=1595164 time=1617808312 user_id=1305
Sorry, I'm mis-using the "quote" button to move this post as the thread has moved on while i was editing.
What are you riding at the moment?
I randomly went to the first website you linked, which was Giant.
If you click on "geometry" it takes you to a list of numbers, and a diagram.
"reach" is the horizontal distance from the bottom bracket (where the pedals rotate) to the top of the head tube (steering). This dimension tells you how far away the handlebars will be
"stack" is the vertical distance from the bottom bracket to the top of the head tube. this tells you how high (low!) the handlebars will be.
If you are not used to a modern road bike, the handlebars will feel very low, and very far away when you start.
Reach and Stack are dimensions which I would use to compare not only different bikes, but different sizes of the same bike.
In general, a "larger" size bike will give you the benefit of higher bars (bigger stack dimension) at the cost of the bars being further away (bigger reach dimension).
I think you should be looking for a tall stack, and a short reach. However, its cheap and easy to fit a shorter handlebar stem to reduce reach.....20mm reduction is easy. (dimension O on the Giant site)
[/quote]
small bikes are all very well, but there is a limit to how much you can raise the handlebars.
Cycling_Man
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Joined: 7 Apr 2021, 12:41pm

Re: Help Of Choosing Correct Frame Size (Road Bike)

Post by Cycling_Man »

531colin wrote: 7 Apr 2021, 4:11pm What are you riding at the moment?
I randomly went to the first website you linked, which was Giant.
If you click on "geometry" it takes you to a list of numbers, and a diagram.
"reach" is the horizontal distance from the bottom bracket (where the pedals rotate) to the top of the head tube (steering). This dimension tells you how far away the handlebars will be
"stack" is the vertical distance from the bottom bracket to the top of the head tube. this tells you how high (low!) the handlebars will be.
If you are not used to a modern road bike, the handlebars will feel very low, and very far away when you start.
Reach and Stack are dimensions which I would use to compare not only different bikes, but different sizes of the same bike.
In general, a "larger" size bike will give you the benefit of higher bars (bigger stack dimension) at the cost of the bars being further away (bigger reach dimension).
I think you should be looking for a tall stack, and a short reach. However, its cheap and easy to fit a shorter handlebar stem to reduce reach.....20mm reduction is easy. (dimension O on the Giant site)
At the moment I am borrowing a Specialized Mountain Bike. The bike itself is a size 17inch and is very small for me. I have the seat all the way up, quite a distance above the handle bars and the bike just feels a little cramped. The bike itself is a good bike however I definitely need a bike bigger than this I believe. I don't want to get a mountain bike though as I don't do much off-roading and want something that is quicker on the roads that I can ride for long distances.

I have looked at the geometry of the bikes but there are so many measurements I just don't know which one is right for me haha. How do I workout the best stack and reach for me, is there a way. I replied to your posts a minute ago saying about how I actually went to view a XL Giant Contend SL 1 that someone was selling and it felt like the I was maybe reaching a little bit and going by Giants Size Guide it says that I need a Large, not an XL. However I didn't have long on the bike obviously because it wasn't mine but from what I did gather I felt I may have been reaching a bit for the handlebars but like you say I am not used to road bikes. However from another reply on this topic from someone they say that the Large would be best for me and although I haven't tried one I think I agree from what I tried on the XL and because of Giant's Size Guide recommended me this.

Why don't Giant have a size in numbers. Like I asked this question a minute ago replying to you guys but I don't get what a 52, 53, 56, 58, etc, etc bike is. Why is a 58 a 58, what is it measuring because from the geometry I can't see anything measuring 58cm on the bikes so why is it a 58 frame?
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foxyrider
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Re: Help Of Choosing Correct Frame Size (Road Bike)

Post by foxyrider »

I sold Giant bikes for a number of years - you quickly learn to ignore what the size is quoted as and with experience you can work out easily which one a person needs. As an example, the Giant size guide suggests i should ride an M/L road bike but like you, when i tried that i found myself too stretched - i ended up with an M which was almost perfect. Back when bikes were built with horizontal top tubes you could expect that most machines of a given size would be pretty much the same but compact geometries with sloping tubes cross checking a size across brands has become, as you've discovered, a bit of a lottery, add in a general move towards smaller frame sizes for everyone and it can become a nightmare.

So for example, i'm 5'10"/178cm with long arms and legs and i currently have 5 'standard' framed bikes, all fit me and are set up within @1cm/1/2" for reach and saddle height depending on use but the frame sizes run 24"/61cm, 58cm, 56cm, 54cm and 53cm. The first three are old school shaped steel, the 54 is a compact CF described as medium and the 53 a compact Al CX (cyclo cross) described as small. Yep, a right bag of string.

From experience i would expect someone of your height to be on a 60 or 62cm equivalent frame, that is when measured in the traditional way, ie from centre of the bottom bracket along the line of the seat tube to a point where it would cross an imaginary line running horizontal from the top/middle of the top tube where it meets the head tube. This does mean that you will find, as on the Giant listing, a measurement that is not physical to the frame. Specialised used to give two numbers, real and horizontal. My CF frame is real 54cm but horizontal 57cm, which falls pretty much where i would expect to find a modern horizontal tubed bike to fit me.

Size guides are just that, guides, two bikes of apparently the same size can feel entirely different for all manner of reasons, frame angles, saddle/handlebar positions etc, etc. Whilst its true that buying small is better than big, you can only make a smaller bike so much bigger, you can usually fit several sizes, only physically sitting on them will tell you which is the one for you.

Good luck in your search.
Convention? what's that then?
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TrevA
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Re: Help Of Choosing Correct Frame Size (Road Bike)

Post by TrevA »

I’m the same height as Cycling Man with a similar inside leg. I have previously owned a Trek Domane and mine was size 58. I did have to fit a longer stem on it, as it only came with a fairly short stem (100mm) from memory. I fitted a 130mm stem.

The problem is that different manufacturers size bikes differently. Cannondales are big for their stated size. I’m currently riding a 54cm Cannondale Caad8, which is a little on the small side (it’s borrowed from my son in law) but a 56cm would be perfect for me.

My winter bike is an XL Triban 520, but I think it’s a little big for me and a Large would have been better. It also depends on how high you want the handlebars. If you prefer a more upright position, then a bigger frame might be better, but you might also be too stretched out. Try before you buy really is the only way, which is very difficult at the moment as shops don’t have much stock.
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kylecycler
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Re: Help Of Choosing Correct Frame Size (Road Bike)

Post by kylecycler »

Further to foxyrider's post, I remember 531colin posting photos of two or maybe three different sizes all set up for the same fit, so whichever of the three bikes/sizes you've listed you decide on should be workable and adjustable, hopefully, within reason, and to some extent your body will adapt to whatever differences there are. (*whispers*: think in terms of the one that appeals to you... :wink:)

Of the three bikes/sizes, as far as I can tell the '61' size Trek has the highest stack, by some way, and a slightly shorter reach than the 'L' size Giant or the 58cm Allez, so what that means is it will give you the most upright, 'shortest' and arguably less tiring (if also less 'aero', (as) if that matters!) position - AIUI, the higher the stack, the less saddle to bar drop, which will help your back and neck, effectively.

61 Trek: 646mm Stack, 385mm Reach
'L' Giant: 605mm Stack, 390mm Reach
('XL' Giant: 624cm Stack, 398mm Reach)
58cm Allez: 627mm Stack, 390mm Reach
(61cm Allez: 649mm Stack, 396mm Reach)

The Trek's sizing is a little odd in the sense that the '61cm' frame has a 58.6cm effective top tube (ETT) - the horizontal, not actual, top tube length - most often these days sizes are quoted as something around the ETT length, so it would more normally be sized as a 58. The reason the ETT is relatively short for that size of frame, though, is because the head tube is so long, which since it's angled backwards, effectively 'brings back', i.e. shortens, the top tube (you have to visualise it).

The Domane generally has relatively odd sizing for a road bike because it's an 'endurance' as opposed to 'race' style frame, with a long head tube relative to top tube for a more upright, less stretched out position - the head tube on the '61cm' frame is 235mm, which is a lot, but your body will thank you on a long ride. As a comparison, my humble Carrera TdF has a 58cm ETT but a 160mm head tube (I'm 5' 10"), which is normal 'racey-ish' fit, but not as extremely low and long as an aero frame.

I would reckon the 'L' size Giant and the 58cm Allez would be ok for you, just not as 'short-ish and upright' as the Trek, although they both have relatively long head tubes and therefore 'endurance' geometry. Bear in mind, btw, that if you're concerned about looks, a long, long head tube such as on the Trek can look a bit gawky (but you can't really see the head tube length from the saddle, which is where it matters!).

As others have said, it would be best for you to try them, and it's a shame if you can't, but bear in mind that how you feel will depend a lot on what you're already used to - to begin with when I rode the Carrera it felt far too long and low on the hoods or the drops but it was my first road bike and I was used to flat bar (20 inch) hybrids. I shortened the stem from 110mm to 100mm but it now feels fine - I've even taken a couple of spacers away from under the stem - and my body wonders why it felt the way it felt before!). It'll take time for you to adapt.

P.S.

The Competitive Cyclist website in the States used to have a fit guide that did the rounds for a while but is no longer there, but they talked about the 'Competitive Fit', the 'Eddy Fit' and the 'French Fit', the point being that someone of the same height could ride any of the three. However...

The Competitive Fit was like a 'race fit' - don't got there, it's too extreme unless you're racing and none of these three bikes 'fit' that style of fit anyway, if you see what I mean. The Eddy Fit was the way Eddy Merckx looked on his bike - 'just right', at least for a pro racing cyclist, compared to the scrunched up 'two sizes too small with a long stem to compensate' look of pro cyclists in more recent times, although I think they might have moved back from that a little now. Whereas the French Fit was the way French endurance cyclists - 'Randonneurs', or Audax riders as we would call them - looked on their bikes. The 61cm Trek would be closest to the French Fit, while the 58cm Giant and Specialized are closer to French Fit than Eddy Fit and, having endurance geometry, still a long, long way away from Competitive Fit.
iandusud
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Re: Help Of Choosing Correct Frame Size (Road Bike)

Post by iandusud »

Cycling_Man wrote: 7 Apr 2021, 4:46pm Why don't Giant have a size in numbers. Like I asked this question a minute ago replying to you guys but I don't get what a 52, 53, 56, 58, etc, etc bike is. Why is a 58 a 58, what is it measuring because from the geometry I can't see anything measuring 58cm on the bikes so why is it a 58 frame?
The reason is because the number is a bit meaningless. As explained elsewhere it harks back to the time when bike frames had a horizontal top tube and frame size was measured as the length on the seat tube measured from the centre of the bottom bracket (even then different manufacturers measured differently, some to the centre of the intersection of the top tube an others to the top of the seat tube). This why I say the best way to compare frame sizes it to compare effective top tube length which is a horizontal measurement from the centre of the head tube where the top tube intersects to the centre of the seat post. This will determine the reach of the frame. Personally I like the way Giant do it as it gives a reasonable point of reference. Eg you are tall so you would expect to be looking at a Large or possibly Extra Large bike. I see that Giant in their size guide would put you squarely on a L which seems right to me. For me at 6'1" it would be a toss up between a M/L and an L but as I would want the higher front end an L works for me. But that is based on my experience.
simonhill
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Re: Help Of Choosing Correct Frame Size (Road Bike)

Post by simonhill »

OP wrote: " inside leg measurement of around 88-90cm. I found it quite hard to accurately measure this but believe it's around those numbers."


The way I measured my inside leg, or stand over 'height' came from (I think) the Surly website.

Get a flat book or something similar. Stand with back against a wall, in cycling shoes. Slide book as far up into your crutch as possible with top of book horizontal and square to wall. The top of the book is the height - you can mark, or slide away and then mark or whatever is easiest.

Hope this helps.

When I was buying my LHT, I had lots of fun sliding the book............
Cycling_Man
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Re: Help Of Choosing Correct Frame Size (Road Bike)

Post by Cycling_Man »

foxyrider wrote: 7 Apr 2021, 5:31pm I sold Giant bikes for a number of years - you quickly learn to ignore what the size is quoted as and with experience you can work out easily which one a person needs. As an example, the Giant size guide suggests i should ride an M/L road bike but like you, when i tried that i found myself too stretched - i ended up with an M which was almost perfect. Back when bikes were built with horizontal top tubes you could expect that most machines of a given size would be pretty much the same but compact geometries with sloping tubes cross checking a size across brands has become, as you've discovered, a bit of a lottery, add in a general move towards smaller frame sizes for everyone and it can become a nightmare.
Hi. Thanks for giving me some information.

Yeah. I don't know if it's just me but I am new to bike buying and it is really confusing haha. Chuck in the fact that these bikes can sell for thousands of pounds and it leads to a very daunting experience to a first buyer not wanting to purchases something too big/small or uncomfortable. That's what I have found anyway. It also doesn't help with the current situation and the fact that I don't have many places I can go to try bikes due to my location.
foxyrider wrote: 7 Apr 2021, 5:31pm So for example, i'm 5'10"/178cm with long arms and legs and i currently have 5 'standard' framed bikes, all fit me and are set up within @1cm/1/2" for reach and saddle height depending on use but the frame sizes run 24"/61cm, 58cm, 56cm, 54cm and 53cm. The first three are old school shaped steel, the 54 is a compact CF described as medium and the 53 a compact Al CX (cyclo cross) described as small. Yep, a right bag of string.
I'm a little confused on what you are trying to explain here. I know the difference between the frames (stardard, compact, etc). Are you trying to say that you have a lot of different bikes that are all different sizes in frame that fit well because if you are that that makes me even more confused on the sizing because they all seem to fit you yet are all different haha.
foxyrider wrote: 7 Apr 2021, 5:31pm From experience i would expect someone of your height to be on a 60 or 62cm equivalent frame, that is when measured in the traditional way, ie from centre of the bottom bracket along the line of the seat tube to a point where it would cross an imaginary line running horizontal from the top/middle of the top tube where it meets the head tube. This does mean that you will find, as on the Giant listing, a measurement that is not physical to the frame. Specialised used to give two numbers, real and horizontal. My CF frame is real 54cm but horizontal 57cm, which falls pretty much where i would expect to find a modern horizontal tubed bike to fit me.
I went to view a Giant Contend SL 1 (2019) the other day and like I said I found I was reaching. I don't know what size frame this is though but on the sizing guide it says should be using a large and the one I went to see was an XL. I also looked on Trek and Specialized like I said but this confused me even more as Trek said I need a 61 and Specialized said I need a 58 haha. It just so daunting because I don't want to fork out a lot of money on a bike that is too big or small if you know what I mean. I am still confused to why one company say's 58 and another says 61 and I still don't know what those numbers actually mean and what makes a 58 frame a 58 frame.
foxyrider wrote: 7 Apr 2021, 5:31pm Size guides are just that, guides, two bikes of apparently the same size can feel entirely different for all manner of reasons, frame angles, saddle/handlebar positions etc, etc. Whilst its true that buying small is better than big, you can only make a smaller bike so much bigger, you can usually fit several sizes, only physically sitting on them will tell you which is the one for you.

Good luck in your search.
Yeah I get that they are guides but it's just confusing that the manufacturers all use different sizing and different numbers. Wish it was just standardised as that would make buying a bike a lot less daunting for me but I know that is not going to happen and probably can't haha.

Thanks for your friendly reply and for the good wishes also.
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531colin
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Re: Help Of Choosing Correct Frame Size (Road Bike)

Post by 531colin »

Cycling_Man wrote: 7 Apr 2021, 4:46pm At the moment I am borrowing a Specialized Mountain Bike. The bike itself is a size 17inch and is very small for me. I have the seat all the way up, quite a distance above the handle bars and the bike just feels a little cramped. The bike itself is a good bike however I definitely need a bike bigger than this I believe. I don't want to get a mountain bike though as I don't do much off-roading and want something that is quicker on the roads that I can ride for long distances.

I have looked at the geometry of the bikes but there are so many measurements I just don't know which one is right for me haha. How do I workout the best stack and reach for me, is there a way. I replied to your posts a minute ago saying about how I actually went to view a XL Giant Contend SL 1 that someone was selling and it felt like the I was maybe reaching a little bit and going by Giants Size Guide it says that I need a Large, not an XL. However I didn't have long on the bike obviously because it wasn't mine but from what I did gather I felt I may have been reaching a bit for the handlebars but like you say I am not used to road bikes. However from another reply on this topic from someone they say that the Large would be best for me and although I haven't tried one I think I agree from what I tried on the XL and because of Giant's Size Guide recommended me this.

Why don't Giant have a size in numbers. Like I asked this question a minute ago replying to you guys but I don't get what a 52, 53, 56, 58, etc, etc bike is. Why is a 58 a 58, what is it measuring because from the geometry I can't see anything measuring 58cm on the bikes so why is it a 58 frame?
The "size" doesn't mean anything. Nothing at all. Different manufacturers measure differently, and even the same manufacturer will make different bikes, different shapes. Somebody already said, you would probably be better looking at "endurance/road" bikes than out and out race bikes, because the riding position is less challenging.
Now, you rode a Giant Contend SL1 sizeXL, and you felt the bars were a long reach...
Get on giant website and find stack and reach for that bike, write them down!
you want a bike with LESS reach than that.
(or you can fit a shorter stem...on the Giant Contend 2 one size different makes a MAXIMUM difference of 1cm reach....stems come in 1cm increments, so you can easily shorten it more than the difference between 2 sizes.
how about the height of the bars on that bike you rode? On the Contend 2 if you go down one size, the bars drop by 20mm. Thats not absolutely the end of the world, those types of bikes are generally assembled in the factory so that if you flip the stem, you can get the bars higher (all this assumes the bike you rode is in "factory spec.) Or you can get a High rise stem, but they look a bit weird on a road bike.
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