Is the number plate visible or legal ?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Percy
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Joined: 29 Mar 2021, 8:21pm

Re: Is the number plate visible or legal ?

Post by Percy »

I know this doesn't answer your question. I'm just thinking that if a cop stopped you for the number plate issue, he'd have to be a pretty rotten cop, looking for a victim. The lights at night, that's another matter but during daylight hours it ought to not matter except for a rotten cop out to get you "because the brake lights are being obscured."

Being that you have front number plates, too, a front carrier (if such a thing exists) still wouldn't help. A trailer behind the car, with a bike loaded on it, will still partly hide the number plate, even if the trailer doesn't.

About the only sure answer might be to get a van big enough to put a bike or two inside.

Here in the USA, we don't have front number plates, and I never heard of a cop stopping someone for a partly hidden plate. I see a lot of plates that are badly damaged or altered, with some even having a plastic cover that prevents traffic cameras from recording the number. But this all depends on the part of the country. I'm near Tampa where cops have a lot more to do than harass drivers carrying a bike on the rear of their car.
If I knew how to ride a bike, safely, I'd do it every time.
PT1029
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Re: Is the number plate visible or legal ?

Post by PT1029 »

I worked in a bike shop in the 1990's, we sold various rear cycle carriers for cars.
It was drilled into us that customers be told to keep lights and/or number plates clear (I forget if one or both).
It was also drilled into us the shop could be fined £400 (I think) for selling one that obscured the lights/reg plate. I remember the fine correctly I think, as my reaction was it would be cheaper to run someone down on a pedestrian crossing.....

It was also drilled into us to check the Thule boot/hatchback mount car model/date list, as some cars had aluminium or fiberglass boots/hatches, and they would not cope with the stress/strap/weight.
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cycleruk
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Re: Is the number plate visible or legal ?

Post by cycleruk »

Keepsim wrote: 16 May 2021, 7:03pm I would be thankful if someone can guide me in steps, i will need number plate to out on light board ~ the wiring bit is not clear, does the light connects to tow bar or trailer light ? Car is Mitsubishi outlander D, are these manufacturers specific?

i went to these racks as they cheaper compared to rooftop but giving second thought if rooftop is less messy ?
Thanks
In older cars we just used "scotch locks" to crimp the socket wires into the car wires.
In some newish cars there maybe a connection in the boot of the car already wired that you can connect the socket wires too.
With very modern cars you have to be very careful with the wiring as I believe you can upset the cars electrics and possibly damage them. (true or not but that is what I was told) So please double check before doing anything.
There are two wiring standards, one being 7 pin socket and the other is 13 pin. You only need the 7 pin version for a light board.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322418139339 ... qMQAvD_BwE
When you connect the light board it may or may-not upset the rate the turn indicators flash at. Again there is a legal range the flashers should work in. (60 to 120 flashes / minute.) Again you may have to fix this if it is wrong.
As Jdsk advises if you don't have confidence in wiring the sockets then see about having it done professionally.
By the way you don't need to have the socket mounted under the vehicle. You could have the socket in the boot and only pull it out when needed. :idea:
P.S. Some information here:-
https://www.pfjones.co.uk/advice-centre ... trics.html
You'll never know if you don't try it.
Cyril Haearn
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Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Is the number plate visible or legal ?

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Percy wrote: 16 May 2021, 8:25pm I know this doesn't answer your question. I'm just thinking that if a cop stopped you for the number plate issue, he'd have to be a pretty rotten cop, looking for a victim. The lights at night, that's another matter but during daylight hours it ought to not matter except for a rotten cop out to get you "because the brake lights are being obscured."
..
A rotten cop? Disagree strongly, experience shows that a driver stopped for one offence may be committing others, and it is easy enough to avoid committing this offence. Occasionally cycles fall off cars, maybe on the freeway, with serious consequences
..
Taking cycles by car is so much trouble, I should try cycling from home
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Jdsk
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Re: Is the number plate visible or legal ?

Post by Jdsk »

cycleruk wrote: 16 May 2021, 8:33pm
Keepsim wrote: 16 May 2021, 7:03pm I would be thankful if someone can guide me in steps, i will need number plate to out on light board ~ the wiring bit is not clear, does the light connects to tow bar or trailer light ? Car is Mitsubishi outlander D, are these manufacturers specific?

i went to these racks as they cheaper compared to rooftop but giving second thought if rooftop is less messy ?
Thanks
In older cars we just used "scotch locks" to crimp the socket wires into the car wires.
In some newish cars there maybe a connection in the boot of the car already wired that you can connect the socket wires too.
With very modern cars you have to be very careful with the wiring as I believe you can upset the cars electrics and possibly damage them. (true or not but that is what I was told) So please double check before doing anything.
There are two wiring standards, one being 7 pin socket and the other is 13 pin. You only need the 7 pin version for a light board.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322418139339 ... qMQAvD_BwE
When you connect the light board it may or may-not upset the rate the turn indicators flash at. Again there is a legal range the flashers should work in. (60 to 120 flashes / minute.) Again you may have to fix this if it is wrong.
As Jdsk advises if you don't have confidence in wiring the sockets then see about having it done professionally.
By the way you don't need to have the socket mounted under the vehicle. You could have the socket in the boot and only pull it out when needed. :idea:
P.S. Some information here:-
https://www.pfjones.co.uk/advice-centre ... trics.html
Mostly agree.

Good advice on flasher rates.

Yes, simply jumping into the existing lighting circuit is now often insufficient.

But I wouldn't use Scotchlok connectors on any circuit that mattered.

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 16 May 2021, 9:22pm, edited 1 time in total.
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Is the number plate visible or legal ?

Post by thirdcrank »

Re visibility of plates.

In the late 1960s there was a case at Leeds Magistrates Court involving an E Type with the front plate stuck on the bonnet thus:-
One like this
One like this
In mitigation, a learned friend remarked that you would only be unable to read the plate if you were lying on the floor and the beak pointed out that that's where you'd be if you'd been knocked down by the car.
RJS
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Location: Torbay

Re: Is the number plate visible or legal ?

Post by RJS »

That's a big 7 seater car isn't it? Could you fold down a couple of rows of seats and put the bikes inside' wrapped up in, say, a ccouple of old blankets, you may have to drop the front wheel's out.
Cheers, Rob.
Jdsk
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Re: Is the number plate visible or legal ?

Post by Jdsk »

RJS wrote: 16 May 2021, 10:22pm That's a big 7 seater car isn't it? Could you fold down a couple of rows of seats and put the bikes inside' wrapped up in, say, a ccouple of old blankets, you may have to drop the front wheel's out.
When I had what I thought was the brilliant idea of renting a car to get two people, two tourers and luggage back home from Harwich after the EV15 I saw that the company offered an Outlander. So I checked the dimensions and concluded that it would take us without removing the wheels.

But the company thought that they knew better. They arrived over an hour late and couldn't find us at the ferry terminal. And they picked us up in a single cab pickup with a hardtop, So the wheels had to come off. Then when we got to their base they had decided that an Outlander wouldn't take us. But they hadn't told us. So we ended up with a new Discovery for the price of the Outlander. And they wouldn't shut up about us avoiding damage to the interior.

I should have waited for the train that's allowed to take bikes into London.

Yes, an Outlander will take two bikes inside! : - )

Jonathan
rogerzilla
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Re: Is the number plate visible or legal ?

Post by rogerzilla »

I know someone who was nicked for this on a Sunday morning, doing a good deed taking a few friends home after the Dunwich Dynamo (she hadn't ridden it herself). So especially beware if you live in Suffolk.
iandusud
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Re: Is the number plate visible or legal ?

Post by iandusud »

Tangled Metal wrote: 16 May 2021, 7:52pm Best option if you're doing electrics anyway is a towbar and towbar mounted rack.
I have to agree with this. Strap on rear carriers have always made me nervous. Personally I have always used roof mounted carriers on the car and the trailer, carrying up to eight bikes at a time. I have never "hung" bikes off the back but have used towbar mounted racks. I have fitted a few towbars and installed the electrics on both older cars (straightforward) and modern "fly by wire" (not so straightforward). As others have said unless you are handy with such things it should be left to a professional.
thirdcrank
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Re: Is the number plate visible or legal ?

Post by thirdcrank »

Something else to be aware of when hanging bikes off the back of a car is how far the load sticks out sideways. The maximum lateral projection here is 305mm or a shade over a foot in old money.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisr/199 ... on/94/made
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mjr
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Re: Is the number plate visible or legal ?

Post by mjr »

iandusud wrote: 17 May 2021, 8:04am As others have said unless you are handy with such things it should be left to a professional.
That is part of why I paid £70 extra for a high level rear rack, putting the bikes piggy-back above lights and plate, so no lighting board needed. That sounds expensive, but as well as being a far steadier fixing (bikes fixed at three or four points instead of two), wiring in a lighting socket to our car that has no towbar was £100 (and another 20 vat IIRC) and the lighting board and plate another £25!
Last edited by mjr on 17 May 2021, 11:27am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Is the number plate visible or legal ?

Post by Tangled Metal »

This is a bigger issue with suspension rear racks where the bikes are hanging from their top tube. It's often very hard to locate bikes centrally.

Towbar racks have strap in points which locate the wheels and aiui are symmetrically located around the hitch.

Bikes are rarely over 3m except for tandems and certain types of recumbent bikes. All those you can get tandem roof mount racks for just those issues.

Imho rear boot mounted racks aren't a his idea for many reasons.
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mjr
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Re: Is the number plate visible or legal ?

Post by mjr »

Tangled Metal wrote: 17 May 2021, 10:29am This is a bigger issue with suspension rear racks where the bikes are hanging from their top tube. It's often very hard to locate bikes centrally.

Towbar racks have strap in points which locate the wheels and aiui are symmetrically located around the hitch.
But bike weight isn't symmetrically distributed between the two wheels, which is why most wheel-supporting racks (whether towbar or rear mount) tell you to alternate the bikes top-tail.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Is the number plate visible or legal ?

Post by Tangled Metal »

True but is there much more protruding out from the front or the back from the fixing points on a towbar rack? What I mean is you strap down at the bottom of the wheel, probably. Same point on both wheels and you've generally only got the radius of the tyre plus the mudguards outside of the tyre. Not significantly different front and back. Since the rack attachment points are aiui the same distance out each way from the hitch, then the liklihood of the bikes creating a 305cm width for most bikes is slim.

I have the largest size frame the brand do in my model of bike. Its wheelbase is about 1.14m or 57 cm from centre line of hitch. I do not see how, when centrally mounted, it would exceed 3.05m thirdcrank mentioned. Boot mount racks are notorious for bikes sticking out and being mounted unevenly across the back. Not really a good design if the bike are suspension mounted.

Incidentally you can buy towbar mounted racks that use a suspension attachment of the bikes. Also my great imho but should be better than boot mount because it centrally locates. Of course weak feature is hanging from top tube or those bars you get when there's no top tube you can hang it from.
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