Is cycling getting more dangerous?

[gazza_d]

Unite about the one common thing and that is riding a cycle.

If it helps I will unite around the ideal of riding a cycle, provided it is done so with respect to all other road and path users

Well I do but I cannot and will not speak for anyone else as cycling is not some kind of Borg collective.
I hope you also walk, cycle and drive with the respect you expecting from others.

[Mick F]

Well this has all gone a bit south.
It does not matter a rat's chuff whether someone is riding along a road for pleasure, transport, training or any other spurious reason.
It does not matter a rat's chuff what they are wearing and that includes hiviz and helmets
It doesnt matter how close to the curb they are or if they are two abreast.
It doesn't matter if they're riding no handed with a phone in one hand and a fag (cigarette) in the other
All that matters is that they are a human being, and that any driver manoeuvring around them, be it overtaking or turning does so with basic respect for another person.
Thinking or saying someone deserves less than that because you don't approve of their dress or purpose isn't right and not driving correctly or safely around them for that reason is bullying and abuse.
Bad drivers can't give time and space to ppl cycling
Bad people won't give time and space to ppl cycling
By arguing all these points the car lobby's job of divide and conquer is being done for them.
Unite about the one common thing and that is riding a cycle.

Spot on.

[cycle tramp]

Unite about the one common thing and that is riding a cycle.

If it helps I will unite around the ideal of riding a cycle, provided it is done so with respect to all other road and path users

Well I do but I cannot and will not speak for anyone else as cycling is not some kind of Borg collective.
I hope you also walk, cycle and drive with the respect you expecting from others.

I endeavour to do so I appreciate that cycling is not a single mind, and nor should it be. However if it perceived that cyclists are not respectful towards walkers and ramblers, then it becomes harder to ask for respect when the same walkers and ramblers become motorists.

My old headmaster once advised that we were all ambassadors for the school. As I cycle I understand that by doing so I am an ambassador for cycling. Any poor behaviour on my part may result in another cyclist having to deal with any angry response.

[drossall]

The issue is that the nouveux cycliste makes attitudes more negative for the rest of us.

I think that itself is a generalisation about groups of people that I find unconvincing. In my recollection, attitudes were pretty negative in the past when there weren't masses of new riders about. There are a small but noisy number of people who lack sympathy for road users who make other choices. I'm not sure that they need the help of any particular sub-group to "justify" their attitudes.

[thirdcrank]

Yes. Let's also remember that this thread was triggered by a report about an increase in the number of cyclist fatalities. I don't see much benefit in our looking for cyclists to blame for this.

[Jdsk]

I think that itself is a generalisation about groups of people that I find unconvincing.

Yes. It's that relentless desire to find outgroups and blame and hate them... clothing, means of transport, cost of bike, whatever...

As I cycle I understand that by doing so I am an ambassador for cycling. Any poor behaviour on my part may result in another cyclist having to deal with any angry response.

Well said. And every pleasant, polite and thoughtful and action counters outgroup hatred.

Jonathan

[Merlin]

It's not group hatred.

It is simply that, should I go out for a group ride in France or Italy (which I have done on a few occasions, no one rides with the lack of consideration shown by groups to motorists. As I notice so many dressed in a fashion and riding a certain level of bike, my deduction is that they, mainly, comprise a certain stereotype.

I don't hate those people. I just wish they would learn the unwritten rules of the road rather than ride as if they are taking part in a classic, with the only motorised transport being team support vehicles.

I think the increase in deaths is partially down to cyclists not knowing how to behave too but that's another story.

[[XAP]Bob]

My old headmaster once advised that we were all ambassadors for the school. As I cycle I understand that by doing so I am an ambassador for cycling. Any poor behaviour on my part may result in another cyclist having to deal with any angry response.

Whilst I agree that in some respects we are all ambassadors for cycling that is only because it is a minority activity.

More importantly though I disagree vehemently with the third sentence.
Any perceived poor behaviour on your part has no causative relationship with anger from someone else.
That's on a par with saying that girls shouldn't wear short skirts, not just to keep themselves safe, but to keep other girls safe as well.
It's insulting and wrong with just the first half, let alone the second.

[fastpedaller]

My old headmaster once advised that we were all ambassadors for the school. As I cycle I understand that by doing so I am an ambassador for cycling. Any poor behaviour on my part may result in another cyclist having to deal with any angry response.

Whilst I agree that in some respects we are all ambassadors for cycling that is only because it is a minority activity.

More importantly though I disagree vehemently with the third sentence.
Any perceived poor behaviour on your part has no causative relationship with anger from someone else.
That's on a par with saying that girls shouldn't wear short skirts, not just to keep themselves safe, but to keep other girls safe as well.
It's insulting and wrong with just the first half, let alone the second.

I tend to agree with cycletramp on this. It's 'human nature' (or indeed animal nature) to associate with a previous incident - In the same way that It's easy to associate Land Rovers, BMW and Audi's with poor driving (although those vehicles aren't ALWAYS driven badly), some motorists have seen some cyclists jumping red lights..... so by association.......

[cycle tramp]

My old headmaster once advised that we were all ambassadors for the school. As I cycle I understand that by doing so I am an ambassador for cycling. Any poor behaviour on my part may result in another cyclist having to deal with any angry response.

Whilst I agree that in some respects we are all ambassadors for cycling that is only because it is a minority activity.

More importantly though I disagree vehemently with the third sentence.
Any perceived poor behaviour on your part has no causative relationship with anger from someone else.

If while cycling on a shared path, I cycled in an inconsiderate manner and in doing so collided with a small dog, who then had to be put down, would the owner of that dog, treat the next cyclist, that they encountered when driving with less or more consideration, than before the death of their beloved pet?

[Oldjohnw]

My old headmaster once advised that we were all ambassadors for the school. As I cycle I understand that by doing so I am an ambassador for cycling. Any poor behaviour on my part may result in another cyclist having to deal with any angry response.

Whilst I agree that in some respects we are all ambassadors for cycling that is only because it is a minority activity.

More importantly though I disagree vehemently with the third sentence.
Any perceived poor behaviour on your part has no causative relationship with anger from someone else.

If while cycling on a shared path, I cycled in an inconsiderate manner and in doing so collided with a small dog, who then had to be put down, would the owner of that dog, treat the next cyclist, that they encountered when driving with less or more consideration, than before the death of their beloved pet?

More than likely.

[mattheus]

People should behave according to their own moral code. Doesn't matter what group you are in.

They shouldn't have to feel responsible for bigots using what they see to justify bad behaviour later, against those they see as the same "group".

Imagine if the "group" you were discussing was black teenagers, or gay men. How would this all sound?

[cycle tramp]

Apologies, this has drifted way off thread...
...the Labour party said they didn't have a problem, the Met said they didn't have a problem, the Catholic church said there wasn't a problem. Each denial cost each organisation a measure of credibility.
Personally I don't see that there's anything to be gained to proclaiming each and every cyclist to be a saint. No one would believe us anyway, and by default would be less inclined to believe whatever was said next. I think that perhaps we should admit that a minority ride in a way, which might be anti-social and may even be viewed as dangerous on shared paths.

[mattheus]

...<snip>...
I think that perhaps we should admit that a minority ride in a way, which might be anti-social and may even be viewed as dangerous on shared paths.

Well of course! Just like a minority of every other group, or every other activity.

(But then anti-social cyclists cost a lot less lives then anti-social drivers ... )

[Percy]

A rather alarming report in today’s Guardian based on data showing a 40% increase in 2020 of cyclists killed in road accidents.

Part of the problem, IMHO, is a lack of experience on the part of the cyclist. Motorcycling is dangerous, too, so I took three experienced rider courses over a ten-year period. They are designed to teach defensive riding. I rode a motorcycle for 28 years with no problems. I don't know if there are cycling classes that might have a similar approach. It's surprising what you might learn. And perhaps some of those cycling deaths were attributable to inexperienced riders.