Is cycling getting more dangerous?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Merlin
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Re: Is cycling getting more dangerous?

Post by Merlin »

You wrote is isn't a sport.

Of course it is and has been for a century. In the same vein as golf is a sport - played with etiquette and good humour. As much a day out as a competitive sporting outing.

The Sunday club run has been like that since the 1920's, in the same way that joggers will look to overtake other joggers. It is why Strava is so popular. For Runners as well as cyclists.
thirdcrank
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Re: Is cycling getting more dangerous?

Post by thirdcrank »

There is a school of thought which is expressed on here from time to time that it is the sporting cyclists (pace JockWadley) who are the problem in that they discourage potential cyclists and especially women by making cycling seem so sporty. The comparison is made with the Netherlands where cycling is somehow more normal.

I was reminded of this on Saturday when I noticed that three out of the top four finishers in La Course including the winner were from the Netherlands. Don't they realise the harm they are doing?

https://www.lacoursebyletourdefrance.com/en/rankings
Merlin
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Re: Is cycling getting more dangerous?

Post by Merlin »

I've cycled, often with clubs thirdcrank, in just about every nation in Europe pretty extensively.

It's not the "sporting cyclists" in my experience. They are everywhere on the continent often in quite large groups. IMHO It's the fact that a lot of "sporting cyclists" in the UK got into it on the back of Team GB, Brailsford and Sky, bought £8k bikes and have never learned the etiquette of the road when it comes to drivers - and indeed pedestrians in some cases.

It's sad. If they only took the time to learn, almost any issue would be the fault of the drivers. The number I see, that even pi55 cyclists off is growing - as is the number with Ear Pods on. Sad as it impacts all of us. I put and old canvas and leather saddlebag on in the UK in the hope that drivers don't think I'm one of them ;)
thirdcrank
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Re: Is cycling getting more dangerous?

Post by thirdcrank »

Although my post followed yours, it was a general point, and if I had the energy I'd go back and find some earlier threads where the point I'm referring to was made.
drossall
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Re: Is cycling getting more dangerous?

Post by drossall »

Merlin wrote: 29 Jun 2021, 11:37amIMHO It's the fact that a lot of "sporting cyclists" in the UK got into it on the back of Team GB, Brailsford and Sky, bought £8k bikes and have never learned the etiquette of the road when it comes to drivers - and indeed pedestrians in some cases.

It's sad. If they only took the time to learn, almost any issue would be the fault of the drivers.
This seems to me to be the same error as cyclist-blaming drivers make. It's like talking about "men" and "rugby players" in sentences such as:

"Rugby players are significantly more aggressive than men."

Whether the statement is true is immaterial (I have no reason to believe it and just made it up as an illustration). It simply makes no sense, because we all realise that most rugby players are men. And most (adult) cyclists are drivers, so it makes no sense to argue that new converts to cycling (from driving, presumably) know no road etiquette, any more than it makes sense to argue that cyclists don't know the rules of the road and drivers do.
Jdsk
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Re: Is cycling getting more dangerous?

Post by Jdsk »

drossall wrote: 29 Jun 2021, 1:42pm This seems to me to be the same error as cyclist-blaming drivers make. It's like talking about "men" and "rugby players" in sentences such as:

"Rugby players are significantly more aggressive than men."

Whether the statement is true is immaterial (I have no reason to believe it and just made it up as an illustration). It simply makes no sense, because we all realise that most rugby players are men. And most (adult) cyclists are drivers, so it makes no sense to argue that new converts to cycling (from driving, presumably) know no road etiquette, any more than it makes sense to argue that cyclists don't know the rules of the road and drivers do.
And the divisive nonsense gets in the way of improvement, as it does in so many fields.

Sometimes I ride a bike, sometimes I drive a car, sometimes I walk. But it's other people who seem to have some great need to classify me.

Jonathan
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Cowsham
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Re: Is cycling getting more dangerous?

Post by Cowsham »

[quote=Jdsk post_i

Sometimes I ride a bike, sometimes I drive a car, sometimes I walk. But it's other people who seem to have some great need to classify me.

Jonathan
[/quote]


I thought it was the undertaker :D
I am here. Where are you?
Jdsk
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Re: Is cycling getting more dangerous?

Post by Jdsk »

I realised what I'd written... and thought that I'd corrected it in time...

: - )

Jonathan
Merlin
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Re: Is cycling getting more dangerous?

Post by Merlin »

drossall wrote: 29 Jun 2021, 1:42pm
Merlin wrote: 29 Jun 2021, 11:37am
And most (adult) cyclists are drivers, so it makes no sense to argue that new converts to cycling (from driving, presumably) know no road etiquette, any more than it makes sense to argue that cyclists don't know the rules of the road and drivers do.
The issue is that the nouveux cycliste makes attitudes more negative for the rest of us. Take out the earpod, stop checking Strava until home, and enjoy the ride - beating your mate to the top of a climb or simply the glorious scenery.
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NUKe
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Re: Is cycling getting more dangerous?

Post by NUKe »

Wow a lot of generalisations blaming cyclists for their own demise. Divide and rule works so easily. New Cyclists, people who wear lycra People who do Strava, people who don't People who played Golf and now Cycle. you forgot to mention Women and the LGBQT community.
The article doesn't say who they are, but one thing is certain they are people with families and friends who have died, whilst cycling. All these deaths are a tragedy, but Please stop trying to scape goat the people who don't fit your norm.

Sorry rant over
NUKe
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Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Is cycling getting more dangerous?

Post by Marcus Aurelius »

It’s getting more risky. It only becomes dangerous if you don’t assess and mitigate for the risks.
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Mick F
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Re: Is cycling getting more dangerous?

Post by Mick F »

Merlin wrote: 29 Jun 2021, 10:20am You wrote is isn't a sport.

Of course it is and has been for a century.
No it isn't, and has never been unless the cyclist wants it to be.

You can play sport on anything and do anything at any time. Cycling is just riding a bike. You can ride a skateboard or roller skates or a surfboard or run around on a field kicking a football about, or even hit a ball with a stick or bat or bounce a ball. None of these are sports unless you want them to be.
Mick F. Cornwall
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gazza_d
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Re: Is cycling getting more dangerous?

Post by gazza_d »

Well this has all gone a bit south.

It does not matter a rat's chuff whether someone is riding along a road for pleasure, transport, training or any other spurious reason.

It does not matter a rat's chuff what they are wearing and that includes hiviz and helmets

It doesnt matter how close to the curb they are or if they are two abreast.

It doesn't matter if they're riding no handed with a phone in one hand and a fag (cigarette) in the other

All that matters is that they are a human being, and that any driver manoeuvring around them, be it overtaking or turning does so with basic respect for another person.

Thinking or saying someone deserves less than that because you don't approve of their dress or purpose isn't right and not driving correctly or safely around them for that reason is bullying and abuse.

Bad drivers can't give time and space to ppl cycling
Bad people won't give time and space to ppl cycling

By arguing all these points the car lobby's job of divide and conquer is being done for them.
Unite about the one common thing and that is riding a cycle.
cycle tramp
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Re: Is cycling getting more dangerous?

Post by cycle tramp »

drossall wrote: 29 Jun 2021, 1:42pm
Merlin wrote: 29 Jun 2021, 11:37amIMHO It's the fact that a lot of "sporting cyclists" in the UK got into it on the back of Team GB, Brailsford and Sky, bought £8k bikes and have never learned the etiquette of the road when it comes to drivers - and indeed pedestrians in some cases.
This seems to me to be the same error as cyclist-blaming drivers make.....
.....most (adult) cyclists are drivers, so it makes no sense to argue that new converts to cycling (from driving, presumably) know no road etiquette, any more than it makes sense to argue that cyclists don't know the rules of the road and drivers do.
Perhaps it would help if more new cyclists were actually walkers or ramblers rather than drivers. I might be me being a bit sensitive about it, but I'm wondering just how many new cyclists are showing the same lack of patience as they do when they drive...
again it's just another anecdotal event which happened earlier this year..
...I was cycling back along my local shared footway cycle path, I had 4 panniers full of goods and the weather had turned nice so there's lots of dog walkers on leads....
..anyway behind me I could hear two cyclists (and a chain which sounded like it hadn't been oiled for a month) and they were getting closer. The path isn't that wide, but if you're sensible there's room for a bike on one side and a dog and a couple of people on the other. Bearing in mind we are still social distancing one of the cyclists gets quite close to my back as I approach another dog walker... rather than have them try and squeeze past, I move a foot and a bit towards the dog walker and raise my hand outwards to say hello, at which point the cyclist behind brakes. Having cycled past the dog walker I then move back and allow them to over take. Much like some car drivers for the sake of a few seconds this cyclist was prepared to run the risk of attempting to squeeze between myself and a dog walker, which had they attempted and failed would have meant either collision with me, or a collision with the dog walker and dog perhaps resulting in a vest bill and injury to the dog.
Motorhead: god was never on your sidehttps://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=m ... +your+side
cycle tramp
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Re: Is cycling getting more dangerous?

Post by cycle tramp »

gazza_d wrote: 29 Jun 2021, 5:29pm Unite about the one common thing and that is riding a cycle.
If it helps I will unite around the ideal of riding a cycle, provided it is done so with respect to all other road and path users :-)
Motorhead: god was never on your sidehttps://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=m ... +your+side
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