Tyre on the wrong way round

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
DaveReading
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Re: Tyre on the wrong way round

Post by DaveReading »

RickH wrote: 3 Jul 2021, 3:48pmThe only time you really should worry if your wheel is on the wrong way round is if you are running disc brakes! :shock:
Or you have an old-fashioned bike computer that now refuses to recognise wheel rotation ...
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kylecycler
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Re: Tyre on the wrong way round

Post by kylecycler »

This is utterly bizarre, but there was a Carrera Subway identical to mine running around Ayr with its fork back to front, presumably from new. This would have meant, of course, that the tread on its front tyre was the wrong way round. Except, it wasn't, so I guess the owner must just have thought the tyre had been fitted the wrong way round and 'fixed' it. Either that or just put it back on the 'right' way after a puncture. Seriously, I'm not making this up! :lol:

And just to be clear, it had disc brakes, on the right side of its front wheel instead of the left, but since the fork was on back to front, that was ok. Or, well, the rotor wasn't on the right side of the wheel, it was on the wrong side. Or, well, it wasn't really, but you know what I mean. Or, well, you don't...

Oh, I don't know! :D

I always thought the owner would eventually suss that his fork was wonky - the handling surely must have been - but I don't think he ever did - I parked my Subway next to his outside Asda a couple of years after first seeing his, and his was still the same. They were the same size frame but his bars were about two inches higher than mine because of his fork being the wrong way round. I would have told him if I'd got the chance to speak to him but, people being who and what they are, I doubt if he would have listened or believed me, or even done anything about it - he'd quite possibly have insisted that his was right and mine was wrong. I thought about getting out my allen keys and fixing it for him (he might never have noticed) but I didn't know how long he'd been in Asda* for and I didn't want to get caught in the act.

True story.

(*ASDA is an abbreviation of ASsociated DAiries, the company it was before it was a supermarket. Not many people know that. 8))
KM2
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Re: Tyre on the wrong way round

Post by KM2 »

Usually, if the tread is directional it is to present the longest block of tread to the direction of force.
So the V would be facing forward at the ground on the rear and facing backwards at the ground on the front.
Rear is the drive wheel and front is the driven wheel.
The front presents the longest block side to prevent a loss of grip.
9494arnold
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Re: Tyre on the wrong way round

Post by 9494arnold »

Kylecycler is right, I have seen tyres that inducate one direction on front and other direction on back.
Not sure if the make though.
Stevek76
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Re: Tyre on the wrong way round

Post by Stevek76 »

kylecycler wrote: 3 Jul 2021, 7:23pm And just to be clear, it had disc brakes, on the right side of its front wheel instead of the left, but since the fork was on back to front, that was ok. Or, well, the rotor wasn't on the right side of the wheel, it was on the wrong side. Or, well, it wasn't really, but you know what I mean. Or, well, you don't...

Oh, I don't know! :D
Was the disc rotor in the correct direction for whatever braking forces might result though?
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
puffin
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Re: Tyre on the wrong way round

Post by puffin »

DaveReading wrote: 3 Jul 2021, 6:14pm
RickH wrote: 3 Jul 2021, 3:48pmThe only time you really should worry if your wheel is on the wrong way round is if you are running disc brakes! :shock:
Or you have an old-fashioned bike computer that now refuses to recognise wheel rotation ...
My LEJOG mileage was minus 997.
puffin
Posts: 559
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Location: Bicester / Aylesbury

Re: Tyre on the wrong way round

Post by puffin »

kylecycler wrote: 3 Jul 2021, 7:23pm This is utterly bizarre, but there was a Carrera Subway identical to mine running around Ayr with its fork back to front, presumably from new. This would have meant, of course, that the tread on its front tyre was the wrong way round. Except, it wasn't, so I guess the owner must just have thought the tyre had been fitted the wrong way round and 'fixed' it. Either that or just put it back on the 'right' way after a puncture. Seriously, I'm not making this up! :lol:

And just to be clear, it had disc brakes, on the right side of its front wheel instead of the left, but since the fork was on back to front, that was ok. Or, well, the rotor wasn't on the right side of the wheel, it was on the wrong side. Or, well, it wasn't really, but you know what I mean. Or, well, you don't...

Oh, I don't know! :D

I always thought the owner would eventually suss that his fork was wonky - the handling surely must have been - but I don't think he ever did - I parked my Subway next to his outside Asda a couple of years after first seeing his, and his was still the same. They were the same size frame but his bars were about two inches higher than mine because of his fork being the wrong way round. I would have told him if I'd got the chance to speak to him but, people being who and what they are, I doubt if he would have listened or believed me, or even done anything about it - he'd quite possibly have insisted that his was right and mine was wrong. I thought about getting out my allen keys and fixing it for him (he might never have noticed) but I didn't know how long he'd been in Asda* for and I didn't want to get caught in the act.

True story.

(*ASDA is an abbreviation of ASsociated DAiries, the company it was before it was a supermarket. Not many people know that. 8))
Amazing!!! Not the ASDA bit, the forks bit.
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simonineaston
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Re: Tyre on the wrong way round

Post by simonineaston »

Does anyone know what effect
I have 10p that says apart from a very minor and probably undetectable reduction in grip under some specific circumstances due to the asymetric shape of the tread mouldings, none...
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Tyre on the wrong way round

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Jdsk wrote: 3 Jul 2021, 11:29am
Tompsk wrote: 3 Jul 2021, 11:28am IIRC (for car tyres) directional tyres optimise the grip for braking performance, so will be the 'same' front and back. This may make a difference in wet or loose conditions more than on dry tarmac. On dry tarmac the best grip is with no tread, i.e. slick tyres. The directional tread patterns I have seen on bicycle tyres always seem to 'point forwards' when viewed at the top of the wheel, if correctly mounted.
For car tyres for high performance use some manufacturers recommend a single direction of rotation, others varying according to whether they're driving or driven.

Jonathan

PS: And some are L-R asymmetric. This just looks wrong.
Snow and Ice, also winter, may be rotational.
On bicycles I tend to position front for max grip braking.
Rear for max grip, so they will be different front to rear, how much difference it will make is probably small.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
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kylecycler
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Re: Tyre on the wrong way round

Post by kylecycler »

Stevek76 wrote: 3 Jul 2021, 8:40pm
kylecycler wrote: 3 Jul 2021, 7:23pm And just to be clear, it had disc brakes, on the right side of its front wheel instead of the left, but since the fork was on back to front, that was ok. Or, well, the rotor wasn't on the right side of the wheel, it was on the wrong side. Or, well, it wasn't really, but you know what I mean. Or, well, you don't...

Oh, I don't know! :D
Was the disc rotor in the correct direction for whatever braking forces might result though?
It certainly wasn't! I suppose it must have stopped well enough, though, however you define that (a miss being as good as a mile!).
gxaustin
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Re: Tyre on the wrong way round

Post by gxaustin »

The "tread" on road tyres is extremely shallow - much shallower than would be illegal on a car tyre. Many bike tyres are slick. Additionally, The width of the contact patch of a road bike tyre is only about 10 or 12mm. That is a very short path (6mm) for water to clear. I doubt that tread does anything on a road tyre.
Makes a huge difference off road though
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Chris Jeggo
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Re: Tyre on the wrong way round

Post by Chris Jeggo »

Extract from https://www.schwalbe.com/en/profil

"Technology / FAQ

"Why are so many treads direction dependant?

"In the case of a road tire the rolling direction is mainly important for aesthetic considerations. Tires marked with arrows simply look more dynamic..

"Off road, the rolling direction is far more important, as the tread ensures optimumconnection between the tire and the ground. The rear wheel transmits the driving force and the front wheel transmits the braking and steering forces. Driving and braking forces operate in different directions. That is why certain tires are fitted in opposite rotating directions when used as front and rear tires.

"There are also treads without a specified rotating direction."

=========================================================================

https://www.conti-tyres.co.uk/ does not even mention the subject.
awavey
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Re: Tyre on the wrong way round

Post by awavey »

gxaustin wrote: 4 Jul 2021, 9:40pm The "tread" on road tyres is extremely shallow - much shallower than would be illegal on a car tyre. Many bike tyres are slick. Additionally, The width of the contact patch of a road bike tyre is only about 10 or 12mm. That is a very short path (6mm) for water to clear. I doubt that tread does anything on a road tyre.
Makes a huge difference off road though
Id agree, I thought on the road, tread patterns on bicycle tyres were almost there simply as a cosmetic psychological aid rather than a physical aid, as in people get really squirelly about riding on completely tread free tyres, so they put this tread pattern on and people were happier, even though it does next to nothing for them so putting them on backwards really makes no odds on it. The contact patch of a bike tyre on the road is so small theres little to no chance of aquaplaning, and that tread pattern is doing nothing to channel the water away,the force going through the contact patch forces the water out the way rather than lifting the wheel up which is what you get with vehicle tyres.

off road though completely different because the tread patterns are designed to bite into the loose surfaces to give you extra purchase or leverage force as the wheel moves and some of those tread blocks are shaped to be directional that way
Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Tyre on the wrong way round

Post by Marcus Aurelius »

awavey wrote: 4 Jul 2021, 10:57pm
gxaustin wrote: 4 Jul 2021, 9:40pm The "tread" on road tyres is extremely shallow - much shallower than would be illegal on a car tyre. Many bike tyres are slick. Additionally, The width of the contact patch of a road bike tyre is only about 10 or 12mm. That is a very short path (6mm) for water to clear. I doubt that tread does anything on a road tyre.
Makes a huge difference off road though
Id agree, I thought on the road, tread patterns on bicycle tyres were almost there simply as a cosmetic psychological aid rather than a physical aid, as in people get really squirelly about riding on completely tread free tyres, so they put this tread pattern on and people were happier, even though it does next to nothing for them so putting them on backwards really makes no odds on it. The contact patch of a bike tyre on the road is so small theres little to no chance of aquaplaning, and that tread pattern is doing nothing to channel the water away,the force going through the contact patch forces the water out the way rather than lifting the wheel up which is what you get with vehicle tyres.

off road though completely different because the tread patterns are designed to bite into the loose surfaces to give you extra purchase or leverage force as the wheel moves and some of those tread blocks are shaped to be directional that way
The reason for the tread pattern on most tyres is decorative at best. Some more highly engineered tyres have a ‘tread pattern’ which is designed purely to gain technical bragging rights. “Our tyres save you 0.000001 Watts, compared to the competitors tyres”. Yes, that might be right, and yes, you would need to have them mounted as per the test rig to replicate those figures, but really? It’s a case of ‘marginal gains’ gone mad.
Jules59
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Re: Tyre on the wrong way round

Post by Jules59 »

puffin wrote: 3 Jul 2021, 10:21am I've just realised, after cycling quite a while, that my front wheel is on the wrong way round (the quick release is on the right so the tyre is rotating against the directional arrow). Does anyone know what effect (if any) this would have had on the bike? The tyre is a Marathon Plus.
If you are referring to potential; adverse handling then I think it fair to say that for road tyres the "tread" makes negligible difference, even in the wet as most road tyres are just slicks, in effect.

Rim brakes or disc ? If rim - just turn the wheel around. If disc turn the tyre around.

The QR skewer can be inserted from either side on my bike with rim brakes. - makes no difference.
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