Have I ruined my brooks B17?

[gxaustin]

I am on my second Brooks and I have come to the realisation that they are crap. I mean, just start with the idea of a saddle that should not be left/used in the rain! From there it's all downhill. I do bike touring so when it rains your bike is in the rain. And the bike tourers are the most religious about Brooks. Go figure.

Maybe you could learn something about saddle care from them?

[nantman85]

Where's the photo?

Sorry I’ve not logged on for a long time.

Here is the photo.

I definately ruined it for my own tastes I sold it on eBay with the disclaimer that I had made my own cut out.
I think I was hasty as I love that leather saddles don’t chafe so I may be trying a leather saddle with a cut out like the selle anatomica.

[simonhill]

Ta.

All's well that ends with a sale.

[pwa]

I am on my second Brooks and I have come to the realisation that they are crap. I mean, just start with the idea of a saddle that should not be left/used in the rain! From there it's all downhill. I do bike touring so when it rains your bike is in the rain. And the bike tourers are the most religious about Brooks. Go figure.

Maybe you could learn something about saddle care from them?

I just ride with the nylon cover on the saddle. It may not look right but only your backside sees it. I don't feel it, and the cover is dirt cheap so when it wears out I replace it. That, together with a bit of proofide or whatever once in a while, and I've not had problems with the rain.

[Jamesh]

I am on my second Brooks and I have come to the realisation that they are crap. I mean, just start with the idea of a saddle that should not be left/used in the rain! From there it's all downhill. I do bike touring so when it rains your bike is in the rain. And the bike tourers are the most religious about Brooks. Go figure.

Probably due to the leather being poorer in quality than previously. Apparently due to BSE and cattle living for only 30months???

Try a spa saddle very robust!

Cheers James

[Albrecht]

Probably due to the leather being poorer in quality than previously. Apparently due to BSE and cattle living for only 30months???

Try a spa saddle very robust!

I was looking for advice about whether to have a Brooks Professional saddle cut out or not but noticed this post and thought it was quite sad. Of course, it's very true. I'm sure in the old days when horse saddle manufacturer John Boultbee Brooks started, horse and indeed cows lived full lives and developed tough hides before being sent to the knackers.

Where does Selle buy the leather from?

These days, in the UK, beef cattle are generally slaughtered after 6 to 36 months. 12 is said to be the most economical. Milk cows at around four or five years, when naturally they could live to 20 years or more. They're basically big babies, or adolescents respectively.

Does having holes punched in them alone make a difference, as that I could do by myself? Does it encourage the saddle to soak up more water?

I'm not sure how much Brooks charge to do it but I know they have a £45 charge for changing rivets. I'm hoping may be they'd do it at the same time.

The Professional is pretty much the same as the B17 but I think 16mm wide instead.

Thank you.

[Albrecht]

Probably due to the leather being poorer in quality than previously. Apparently due to BSE and cattle living for only 30months???

I actually spoke to Brooks to confirm this, and it's true.

Since BSE the government has made a law (1996) stating that any cows killed for human consumption must be murdered before the age of 30 months (or 2-1/2 years). The hides are British or Irish.

This has caused their tanner to have to develop a much longer tanning process taking around 28 weeks to obtain the standard that they need.

That's equivalent to killing off a human when they were only about 10 years old, i.e. 1/8th of their natural lifespan, hence the leather hasn't had the chance to develop its full strength. Think of the difference between your hide a child's.

Vintage saddles might be better. I suppose it must push up prices too.

[Jamesh]

Try a spa saddle their hides are about 10 years old ...

I must have 2000miles on mine and still not broken in!!

[simonineaston]

As an aside, I inherited a leather belt from my dad and it must now be some decades old and looks brand new, inspite of constant use. It perports to be made out of a dead kangaroo...

[alexnharvey]

Try a spa saddle their hides are about 10 years old ...

I must have 2000miles on mine and still not broken in!!

They also have a reinforcing layer glued to the underside.

[JohnW]

Brooks saddles must be one of the most frequently recurring themes down the years of the life of this Forum!
Some of us swear by them and some swear at them.
I've used Brooks leather saddles for most of my riding for most of my cycling life (and that goes back into the 1950s).
I also had a couple of Wrights earlier on - but I digress)
Other members opinions/experience may be different from mine but I suggest that position on the bike (i.e. saddle height and saddle front/back position), and the angle of the saddle are as crucial to comfort as a Brooks saddle's softness/wearing-in/maturing.

I've recounted this on the forum before, but it may be relevant. 30-40 years ago West Yorks DA (thats District Association of the CTC - anyone remember?) had our annual 240 miles in 24hrs 'standard' ride. It was over a weekend of course. On the day before the event I'd bought a new B17 and I fitted it on the bike that evening, and started the 240 on a saddle I'd never ridden before (apart from fitting, adjusting and testing) - and it was perfectly comfortable for the whole of the ride...........and for years thereafter.

Sometimes it's taken me days to get the saddle just right, but usually it's been setting up/position and adjusting that's been the solution - not the saddle itself. I hope that helps.

As an answer to your question, I'd guess you've knackered the saddle.

[MikeF]

Probably due to the leather being poorer in quality than previously. Apparently due to BSE and cattle living for only 30months???

I actually spoke to Brooks to confirm this, and it's true.

Since BSE the government has made a law (1996) stating that any cows killed for human consumption must be murdered before the age of 30 months (or 2-1/2 years). The hides are British or Irish.

That was during the BSE epidemic, but doesn't apply now https://www.gov.uk/guidance/bse. I don't there is an age limit.

[Albrecht]

That was during the BSE epidemic, but doesn't apply now https://www.gov.uk/guidance/bse. I don't there is an age limit.

I don't know but it's what Brooks said this week.

As an aside, I use Nikwax conditioner on mine. Don't like the idea of tallow all over my jeans or shorts, and don't like what they're doing to bees these days.


Beeswax is bees' wax.

[donald.stewart.nj]

That was during the BSE epidemic, but doesn't apply now https://www.gov.uk/guidance/bse. I don't there is an age limit.

I don't know but it's what Brooks said this week.

As an aside, I use Nikwax conditioner on mine. Don't like the idea of tallow all over my jeans or shorts, and don't like what they're doing to bees these days.


Beeswax is bees' wax.

How does tallow get on your clothes? Brooks Proofhide is only used on the underside of the saddle. Once in the saddle’s life. Black or brown shoe polish on the topside.

[Albrecht]

How does tallow get on your clothes? Brooks Proofhide is only used on the underside of the saddle. Once in the saddle’s life. Black or brown shoe polish on the topside.

I take your point but Brooks don't think so (Actually, I don't either, you've got to treat the top too). Nor do I know how much it wicks through. I'm restoring an old neglected one so it's needs it everywhere. The leather must have shrunk a bit and has pulled away from a couple of the rivets. I was thinking of going to big ones to cover it.

This video is embarrassingly 'hipster overload'. When it's replayed in 40 years time, like Pathe Newsreels today, to show how men behaved in the Noughties, it'll have the kids rolling in the aisles. This is why you don't sell a venerable British company out to an Italian corporation. I missed it but apparently, like Belstaff waxed cotton (who were also sold out to an Italian company), they tried to turn Brooks into a lifestyle brand with a Covent Garden shop, & a whole line of branded consumer products. Italians appear to appreciate the Britishness of Britain more than the Britons do.

Seems that they are made in Italy now?

I think the Brooks shop's closed now, and I presume that the last thing they did was actual service work on saddles, but it's good to know the factory still does.

They also said that if I wanted a cut out, and the leather could still sustain it, they'd do it within the £45 (2022) charge for replacing the rivets which isn't bad, so you can have an authentic hole if you want one.

Holes are just for ventilation. I guess on the way up, not the way out.

As an aside, I found an amazing saddle nerd who's done a whole load of experimenting on Brooks & others, including his own cut outs, & reviewed the results. It's a one way commitment to cut such a hole as I've never tried one. Always thought they looked a little indecent. Especially for the ladies. It may be some kind of sub-conscious, Freudian "Sella Dentata" fear of castration for me.

Selle, coincidentally, was the company who bought Brooks out in a moment of generosity. It means, "saddle". Cool name for a saddle maker.