Quads get tired too quickly...?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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Mick F
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Re: Quads get tired too quickly...?

Post by Mick F »

Vorpal wrote: 22 Jul 2021, 9:03pm quads = quadriceps = general term for the large muscle(s) on the front of the thigh
Thanks.
Nice and simple! :D
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st599_uk
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Re: Quads get tired too quickly...?

Post by st599_uk »

Slothman wrote: 22 Jul 2021, 11:50am Thanks again for the replies.

I suspect my issues stem from more than one place.

I reckon you are all correct in that...

1/ My seat may have been too low (I'll try it out this weekend although will have lost some fitness as I've been away and not ridden for nearly three weeks!)

2/ I am trying too hard and not using my gears correctly.

3/ I am not yet used to cycling and need to condition my legs.

4/ My tyre pressure may be too low and thus losing power (soon to be remedied when I get a decent pump)

5/ My front fork has suspension that can't be locked out completely so I'm losing power there also, despite setting it as firm as it will go.

6/ I need a lighter more road specific bike (working on that)

7/ I am built more like a running sprinter not for distance and carry too much weight up the hills (a lighter bike should help with that as will persisting in my rides, easing off the beer and curry and losing some weight)
4) Tyre pressure doesn't really have as much effect as people think - as long as it's high enough to be safe. The higher the tyre pressure, the less energy lost to deformation when you hit a bump, but the more energy lost in vibration. They sort of cancel out - in fact you can lose fewer watts using supple tyres (which lose less energy deforming) at just below the threshold the bike starts to vibrate. The problem is that the brain thinks vibration is fast.

5) See above.

6) If you save 1kg on the bike, that's only about 1.3% of the total weight you're pulling uphill (for a 70kg rider). You may struggle to notice it. It may be a better investment to look at tyres and gear ratios.
A novice learning...
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Slothman
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Re: Quads get tired too quickly...?

Post by Slothman »

Thanks guys, a lot of good stuff here to digest.

To summarise, so far I've learned....

1/ A lighter bike will help but it also won't.

2/ Suspension and low tyre pressures will cause energy loss (meaning I have to work harder to move forward)..but that it also doesn't make any difference.

3/ The saddle being too low could be causing a lot of the problem, but increasing the height will make it worse.

4/ Clip in's will help harvest more energy by utilising the up stroke...but it also won't make any difference.

I may consider stamp collecting..... :?
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Re: Quads get tired too quickly...?

Post by Vorpal »

The first couple of those are subject to endless discussion on the forum, so welcome. :wink:

As for the other bits... position on the bike is critical. But it's impossible to correctly diagnose without pictures. Tired quads is *typically* a problem of a too low saddle, which is why people say that.

But really, I think that the best thing you could do is take a look at https://wheel-easy.org.uk/wp-content/up ... -2017a.pdf which is linked in 531colin's signature. He's helped many people with this sort of problem and designed touring bikes for Spa, so his advice is worth listening to.
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Re: Quads get tired too quickly...?

Post by LittleGreyCat »

On the subject of clipping in.
I would put that to one side until you have the bike position to your liking, then consider adding clips of some kind for that extra bit of efficiency.
I use toe clips (no straps) on flat pedals because that suits my starting/stopping style but seems to help a bit with the riding efficiency.
I might have tried cycling shoes with clips in the soles but so far haven't found any to fit, so I cycle in trainers.

On the subject of painful legs:
I expect that the initial problem is a poor riding position.
I agree probably the saddle too low, but use the bike fitting guide to make sure.
After that it will be lack of muscle condition, which will take time to fix, and probably incorrect gear use which will also take time to fix as you get your head round it.

If I've been off the bike for a while I sometimes have to lower my saddle a bit until everything stretches out, then raise the saddle again.

Don't be discouraged.
Keep trying minor alterations to see if they help.
Keep revisiting the changes as you get fitter (e.g. saddle height).
Don't expect too much to soon.
Get out and enjoy yourself.

We are generally, of course, assuming that your bike is the correct size for you. :D
PositivelyMental
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Re: Quads get tired too quickly...?

Post by PositivelyMental »

This is very interesting to me, it’s the first time I e heard anyone else complain of quad pain. I have been experiencing this for about 3 years now, starts as soon as I hit a slope, remains throughout my ride and on occasion I’ve had to get picked up. It’s ruined my enjoyment of cycling as I ride in the Peak District so a flat ride is impossible. Everyone is surprised it’s my quads and not my glutes, I’ve tried all sorts of stretching etc., it stops as soon as I’m back on the flat :( I would pay for a specialist but who deals with quads?!! I e seen some highly recommended physios who have also been unable to explain this, except to suggest I build my glutes, and I possibly use my quads mire as apparently I have hyper flexibility in my knees
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Tigerbiten
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Re: Quads get tired too quickly...?

Post by Tigerbiten »

PositivelyMental wrote: 31 Jul 2021, 10:58pm This is very interesting to me, it’s the first time I e heard anyone else complain of quad pain. I have been experiencing this for about 3 years now, starts as soon as I hit a slope, remains throughout my ride and on occasion I’ve had to get picked up.
What's your normal cadence and how much pressure do you put on the pedals when on the flat ??
And how does it alter when your climbing a hill ??

My optimal cadence is around 70-80 rpm.
If I'm very cycling fit then I can hit as high as 85-90 rpm.
If I've dropped my power output due to overheating on hills then I may drop my cadence to as low as 50-60 rpm.
But no matter what my cadence is, I try and keep the pressure on my pedals constant.
It's only when I've run out of gears down do I switch into a high pedal pressure hill climbing mode.
This switch of mode really hurts my legs as I'm not used to it.
But with my very low first gear, I can climb a 15% hill at 3 mph using the same energy that I'd use to go at 15 mph on the flat.
If I try and power up the same hill at 4-5 mph then my legs will start to hurt.
So it may well take me a lot longer to climb a hill than if I try and power up it.
But I do climb the hill with a minimal energy expenditure, so I can go for longer.
So try and get used to a steady power output/ steady cadence/ light pedal pressure mode of cycling.
You may find it hurts less in the long run.

Luck ..... :D
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Re: Quads get tired too quickly...?

Post by Vorpal »

PositivelyMental wrote: 31 Jul 2021, 10:58pm This is very interesting to me, it’s the first time I e heard anyone else complain of quad pain. I have been experiencing this for about 3 years now, starts as soon as I hit a slope, remains throughout my ride and on occasion I’ve had to get picked up. It’s ruined my enjoyment of cycling as I ride in the Peak District so a flat ride is impossible. Everyone is surprised it’s my quads and not my glutes, I’ve tried all sorts of stretching etc., it stops as soon as I’m back on the flat :( I would pay for a specialist but who deals with quads?!! I e seen some highly recommended physios who have also been unable to explain this, except to suggest I build my glutes, and I possibly use my quads mire as apparently I have hyper flexibility in my knees
As in previous replies, your position on the bike is crucial. Even if it otherwise seems correct, it may be worth checking, or even having a professional fitting.

Secondarily, you may find it beneficial to take up another form of exercise that develops muscle tone in the whole body, such as yoga, pilates, tai chi, swimming, martial arts, etc. Cycling tends to develop that quads more than other muscles, and this can cause muscle imbalances if you don't do enough to tone other muscles. The most common result of this is knee pain, but if you have hyper flexibility, it's possible that this has transferred the problems to another area. A physio who is knowledgeable about, or specialises in cycling is more likely to be helpful.

Steven Hogg talks about quad soreness on his bike fitting page...
https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bi ... -position/
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Re: Quads get tired too quickly...?

Post by 531colin »

PositivelyMental wrote: 31 Jul 2021, 10:58pm This is very interesting to me, it’s the first time I e heard anyone else complain of quad pain. I have been experiencing this for about 3 years now, starts as soon as I hit a slope, remains throughout my ride and on occasion I’ve had to get picked up. It’s ruined my enjoyment of cycling as I ride in the Peak District so a flat ride is impossible. Everyone is surprised it’s my quads and not my glutes, I’ve tried all sorts of stretching etc., it stops as soon as I’m back on the flat :( I would pay for a specialist but who deals with quads?!! I e seen some highly recommended physios who have also been unable to explain this, except to suggest I build my glutes, and I possibly use my quads mire as apparently I have hyper flexibility in my knees
Try pushing the saddle back. 10mm should be enough to notice a difference.
A forward saddle position loads your quads, a rearward saddle position loads your glutes/hamstrings.
Ideally, you want to share out the work between those 3 muscle groups, which are about the 3 biggest muscle groups in the body. Its OK to get home tired, but if you get one muscle group screaming and the rest unaffected, something is wrong, and my bet is that something is your saddle position. It'll take a while to get both the workload shared out "fairly" and also the different muscle groups fitness to an equivalent level.
The ball of your foot should be over or slightly in front of the pedal axle. Much further forward than that also loads your quads.
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Re: Quads get tired too quickly...?

Post by Slothman »

This is all good stuff 🤙

I’ve increased my saddle height (actually it seemed to be a fair bit too low when I checked so perhaps it was set up incorrectly after all) and I’ve pumped my tyres to the 80psi limit.
Also moved the saddle back a tad to.
I’m going to try and get out today and see how it feels, although I’ve not ridden for over two weeks so I’m expecting a painful experience anyway 😟
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Re: Quads get tired too quickly...?

Post by nez »

Do let us know how it goes. I was out on a rarely ridden bike today and could feel different muscles tiring, which made me think of your post. I presume my position is a little bit out. Not much!
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Re: Quads get tired too quickly...?

Post by Slothman »

Ok, increased my seat height, inflated my tyres to the correct, max pressure (80psi).
I went for a 12 mile ride yesterday, on very undulating country lanes and, by using my gears better and not trying to be a hero, I got around and up the hills, without needing to stop or even stand on the pedals and pump. I did stop once to get a drink (hard to do when riding) but not because I had to.
So far so good but I did get very tight upper traps at the back of my neck toward the end of the ride.
I didn’t get the same quad fatigue though, but am now wondering if the increased seat height has solved one issue but caused another?
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Re: Quads get tired too quickly...?

Post by nez »

You may need a shorter or higher stem. I flipped mine on one bike to get the right height. I expect some expert will tell us why I shouldn't have, but it worked. Moving saddle back and forth, as Colin suggests, can have an influence here too. I am probably older than you, but I really need bar tops and saddle top in a horizontal plane.
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Re: Quads get tired too quickly...?

Post by Vorpal »

Slothman wrote: 8 Aug 2021, 11:34am Ok, increased my seat height, inflated my tyres to the correct, max pressure (80psi).
I went for a 12 mile ride yesterday, on very undulating country lanes and, by using my gears better and not trying to be a hero, I got around and up the hills, without needing to stop or even stand on the pedals and pump. I did stop once to get a drink (hard to do when riding) but not because I had to.
So far so good but I did get very tight upper traps at the back of my neck toward the end of the ride.
I didn’t get the same quad fatigue though, but am now wondering if the increased seat height has solved one issue but caused another?
You may be putting too much weight on your arms, which is likely to be a result of the saddle being too far forward. I refer you again to 531colin's bike set-up guide. Have you had a go with that?
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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Re: Quads get tired too quickly...?

Post by Slothman »

Vorpal wrote: 9 Aug 2021, 10:59am
Slothman wrote: 8 Aug 2021, 11:34am Ok, increased my seat height, inflated my tyres to the correct, max pressure (80psi).
I went for a 12 mile ride yesterday, on very undulating country lanes and, by using my gears better and not trying to be a hero, I got around and up the hills, without needing to stop or even stand on the pedals and pump. I did stop once to get a drink (hard to do when riding) but not because I had to.
So far so good but I did get very tight upper traps at the back of my neck toward the end of the ride.
I didn’t get the same quad fatigue though, but am now wondering if the increased seat height has solved one issue but caused another?
You may be putting too much weight on your arms, which is likely to be a result of the saddle being too far forward. I refer you again to 531colin's bike set-up guide. Have you had a go with that?
Hi, thanks, yes I have looked before but can't seem to download it now? Keep getting error message saying 'failed to download PDF'?
I can download and view other PDF's though so I don't know what the issue is.
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