Quads get tired too quickly...?

[Slothman]

I have been running on/off for many years. I'm not great at it and do it for fitness not to be competitive.
I am 5'8" and around 12.5 - 13st in weight, so yes a little over weight at present.
However, due to a repetitive lower Achilles strain on my left side I have had to ease up on the running (thus the putting on weight bit!) and am trying to take up cycling to stay fit without aggravating and buggering up my Achilles.

I ride a CB Cape Wrath (2002/3) MTB with Schwalbe Marathon Supreme road tyres on, and have tried to set the front suspension as hard as possible (no option to lock it out completely I'm afraid).
I have also fitted Ergon grips and risers and a Selle SMP saddle. The saddle helps a lot compared to the factory fitted one.
My riding position is such that when the pedal is in the lowest position, my leg (with my foot fairly flat on the pedal) is still slightly bent and not fully extended. I was told that was correct?

Anyway, there's the background, if relevant.

My issue is that although I like to think I'm fairly fit, having been a runner for years, I really struggle with leg fatigue after a very short time in the saddle, especially (and disproportionately so) on hills, even slight ones.
Basically my quads hurt like heck and run out of power very quickly and I often really struggle up hills.
My calves and glutes don't give me any issues, yes I feel it, but they're not a problem like my quads.

It's like I hit the 'wall' or as they say in cycling circles 'bonk' when going up hills.

I am only doing between 6 & 12 miles max and more often than not between 6 & 8 miles. My speed only averages around 12mph but I'm not hung up on speed really.
However, it seems that my quads just do not want to play nicely and let me down on hills, even fairly early in the ride, I often have to change right down the gears to where my legs are spinning rapidly but the bike is barely moving!!! Even then I often have to stop as my legs simply run out of power.
Once I was literally barely keeping pace with two people simply walking up the hill...embarrassing!!!
I have even tried standing on the pedals to pump up hills but when my legs are tired, that hurts as much as sitting on the saddle and my legs still run out of steam very quickly.

Is it me?
Is it just a matter of perseverance due to using different muscles or in a different way to running?
or... have I got a rooky error thing going on I need to address? (i.e. riding position or technique?)

Can anyone advise as it is taking a lot of the pleasure out of my rides.

[Jdsk]

My riding position is such that when the pedal is in the lowest position, my leg (with my foot fairly flat on the pedal) is still slightly bent and not fully extended. I was told that was correct?

That sounds reasonable. It's often recommended to set it so that with your heel on the pedal your knee is straight. That's about the same.

Can you add a side-on photo or video of you riding, not sitting still?

Basically my quads hurt like heck and run out of power very quickly and I often really struggle up hills.

That's coming on in within 30 min? How long does it take for the pain to go away after you stop? Are they tender?

Jonathan

[PhilD28]

It sounds like your glutes possibly not firing and your quads are taking all the load. It may also be related to position on the bike.

Are you a spinner or lugger when climbing. Good pedalling technique where you are peddaling circles with a smooth controlled action where you pull with your hamstrings through the bottom of the stroke is key.

It might sound like an obvious thing but my suggestion is to get an assessment by a good sports physio, preferably one with an interest in, and experience of cycling. They would analyse muscle imbalance issues and provide advice on exercises to fire up lazy muscle groups.

In the meantime, I would start doing clam exercises to ensure your glutes are firing correctly. Good luck

[Benz3ne]

How bent is 'slightly bent'? I did a bit of trial and error with this and found that my seat had to be much higher than I thought for me to reduce fatigue in my legs (quads specifically).
I found it also made me a bit quicker on commutes.
Perhaps it's just because you're out of practice with cycling? Running (some quads, but hamstring-focused predominantly) is going to target different muscles to cycling (very quads-focused).
I was in the same position as you initially - 6.7 miles and my quads would be knackered. The hill on the way home would completely fudge me! 13 or so weeks in and I'm far more comfortable with (a) longer distances and (b) hills. The first cycle I did home I got off the bike and walked it much of the way home. Now I'm cycling the entire way relatively comfortably, and more recently out of my largest, spinniest gear.

There's nothing wrong with spinning up and going nowhere fast if it means you're comfortable. I'm sure that in not a lot of time you'll be blasting your way up the hills.

Tl, dr: practice/time will help. You might even notice some hypertrophy in your quads which will make them look good too!

[Slothman]

My riding position is such that when the pedal is in the lowest position, my leg (with my foot fairly flat on the pedal) is still slightly bent and not fully extended. I was told that was correct?

That sounds reasonable. It's often recommended to set it so that with your heel on the pedal your knee is straight. That's about the same.

Can you add a side-on photo or video of you riding, not sitting still?

That may be tricky, at least anytime soon but I'll look into it. I'll re-check my saddle height though and perhaps tweak it a little.

Basically my quads hurt like heck and run out of power very quickly and I often really struggle up hills.

That's coming on in within 30 min? How long does it take for the pain to go away after you stop? Are they tender?

Yes it comes on within minutes, only a couple of minutes if there's even a slight hill in that time. Once I stop the effort it stops almost immediately and I can then ride on again...until the next hill!
After a ride my legs (especially in the quads) feel like they are pumped up, almost like they are filled with air but not necessarily in a painful way, just weird and feels strange walking for a few minutes?


Jonathan

[st599_uk]

I was a bit like that when I started, concentrating on pedaling smoothly, yoga and practice all seemed to help. Getting out of the saddle helps a bit.

Bonking is something different - it's where you completely use up all your energy stores, get light headed and all your muscles start to slow down.

[Slothman]

Also worth noting, I don't have clip ins, I just ride in trainers straight onto the standard pedals.
Would that make much difference, or enough to account for the premature leg fatigue?

[PhilD28]

Also worth noting, I don't have clip ins, I just ride in trainers straight onto the standard pedals.
Would that make much difference, or enough to account for the premature leg fatigue?

This doesn't help, it encourages quad loading and stamping on the pedals using the quads. Clip in encourage utilising the hamstrings to pull across the bottom of the pedal stroke, an essential component of efficient peddaling.

[Vorpal]

Can you post some pictures of you seated on the bike or better, a video of you pedalling?

It sounds to me like either your saddle is too low, your gears are too high, or both. But it's difficult to diagnose without more information.

Leg slightly bent at the bottom of the stroke is how saddle height is usually set, however, if your foot is too far forward, or you pedal differently than you set up for the saddle height, it can still be wrong.

Clipping your feet to the pedals won't solve your problems; they only provide small improvements in efficiency.

There are plenty of experienced cyclists who don't clip their shoes to the pedals.

[Vorpal]

Also worth noting, I don't have clip ins, I just ride in trainers straight onto the standard pedals.
Would that make much difference, or enough to account for the premature leg fatigue?

This doesn't help, it encourages quad loading and stamping on the pedals using the quads. Clip in encourage utilising the hamstrings to pull across the bottom of the pedal stroke, an essential component of efficient peddaling.

This is largely a myth. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/which-mus ... -2012.html

Many experienced cyclists do not use clips or clipless systems. Sports cyclists need them for the small efficiency gains. For the rest of us, it is personal choice.

It certainly won't solve the OP's problems to go out and buy new pedals & cycling shoes. If it helped, it would be because their feet are in same position pedalling as setting up.

p.s. I'm pretty sure that I don't stamp on my pedals more than Alex Dowsett does

[PhilD28]

An interesting paper and absolutely contradictory to what I was taught by national level coaches in training camps when I was a cat 2 road racer.
It also contradicts my most recent bike setup by a UK leading bike fit expert who sets up Ineos riders bikes.

I'll stick with what I've been advised by working pros

[tatanab]

Riding position? I get this problem when riding my small wheeled shopping bike, especially if I need to get a move on or up hill. Fortunately it is only used for short distances. In my case it is the classic cramped position that these machines give where I could not get the saddle far enough back to get a decent position. Try pushing the saddle back, and be sure to pedal with the ball of your foot not your instep.

Also, it takes time to learn to be efficient. I have decades of riding so know how to be efficient but if I had to run a half mile I know my legs would be a problem beyond the first couple of hundred yards despite being cycling fit. I just do not have the experience to be efficient.

[nez]

I can't see that you've said how long you've been biking. I reckon 4-6 weeks of regular rides for your muscles to get properly dialled in if you haven't done it at all. So, I would follow all the excellent advice you've been offered here but also allow a month for bike specific toning.

[Vorpal]

An interesting paper and absolutely contradictory to what I was taught by national level coaches in training camps when I was a cat 2 road racer.
It also contradicts my most recent bike setup by a UK leading bike fit expert who sets up Ineos riders bikes.

I'll stick with what I've been advised by working pros

Even if I accept the theory that hamstrings are better activated by being clipped in, the needs of pros & sports cyclists are not entirely applicable to leisure and utility cyclists. I certainly wouldn't want any of my bikes set-up the way pros set theirs up.

If it made that much difference, wouldn't I suffer with problems, hauling camping gear up Norwegian hills? And how did all those cyclists succeed before cleats were invented?

[Slothman]

I can't see that you've said how long you've been biking. I reckon 4-6 weeks of regular rides for your muscles to get properly dialled in if you haven't done it at all. So, I would follow all the excellent advice you've been offered here but also allow a month for bike specific toning.

You are right, I should have given that information.
I have only been riding around 3 to 4 weeks, 2 to 4 rides of between 6 &12 miles each, per week.
So yes, I am very new to this and totally get where you are coming from. I do need to allow time to get used to all this and acclimatising/toning my muscles and tweaking my riding position and technique along the way is no small part of it I reckon.

I wanted to know if this is 'normal' for a newbie and also just wanted to reality check this to see if there was something major I was doing wrong so I could correct it to give myself a fighting chance of taking to this?
I really want to make it work as my Achilles kills me again after only one 5 mile run, even after resting it for a couple of weeks.

I appreciate all the great advice so far.