Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
newtotouring
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Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

Post by newtotouring »

Hello,

After much consideration over the last year, I am looking to upgrade my current bicycle to either a Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

The bike will be used for commuting 15 miles a day, day rides of up to 60 miles and 1 or 2 mini-tours each year carrying x2 15 litre panniers on the rear with a bar bag on the front or possibly (in the case of the Spa Tourer), x2 small front panniers and a rack-pack with fold out panniers on the rear.

Maximum tyre width is only important to the point of being able to fit 35-38mm tyres which I think the Spa Tourer can cope with ok?

Any thoughts on helping me decide what might be my best option would be much appreciated.

Many thanks for any contributions.
newtotouring
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Re: Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

Post by newtotouring »

I should have added. The wheels I am considering with the Spa Touring bike are these:

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m10b0s178p3 ... R270-XR27R
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TrevA
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Re: Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

Post by TrevA »

How much baggage will you be carrying on your commute and day rides? What tyres are you thinking of running?

I’d personally go for 2 sets of wheels - something a bit beefier for loaded touring and the lighter wheel set for day rides. I do have 2 sets of wheels for my Galaxy tourer, a set of Mavic A319’s with 32mm Marathon’s or 37mm Vittorias for loaded touring and utility riding and some LX17’s with 25mm Gatorskins for faster rides. Brakes have to be adjusted but it’s a 2 minute job. If you went for disc brakes, you wouldn’t need to adjust the brakes when swapping wheels.

Not much in buying fast wheels and then putting 35-38mm touring tyres on them.
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alexnharvey
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Re: Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

Post by alexnharvey »

I only commute and I like to have fairly robust wheels for that purpose, light 'touring' rims (e.g. exal lx17, ryde zac 19/2000, h+son archetype), good quality stainless DB 1.8/2.0mm spokes, brass nipples, 32 spokes at the front and 36 rear, shimano hubs.

Given that kind of spec, is there really a need for a heavier duty wheelset for carrying more load? For my commuting and unloaded rides, I'm not really interested in the small weight savings to be had e.g. by a lighter rim and a few less spokes. I'm commuting on 32/35mm tyres (marathon supreme/vittoria hyper), again, quite suitable for a bit of touring?

So, is all that an argument for one wheel set for a commuter/light tourer or not? That being said I do have spare front and rear wheels but they are essentially equivalent rather than being lighter or heavier duty.
st599_uk
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Re: Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

Post by st599_uk »

There's quite some evidence coming from the USA now that unless you're riding at quite high speeds, the aerodynamic penalty of running larger tyres is offset by the gains associated with less vibration and the associated loss of traction and effects on a riders ability to maintain power output. Even the losses at higher speed can be mitigated somewhat by dropping the bars 2-3cm.

I wouldn't discount larger tyres with a slick centre strip. Possibly even 650bs.
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slowster
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Re: Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

Post by slowster »

Regarding tyre clearance for the Tourer, see viewtopic.php?p=1085086#p1085086 (you are limited to mini-V brakes if you want to use STIs - clearance is greater with full size V brakes).

Echoing some of the comments above, the wheelset you are considering does not seem suited for your intended usage. The rim has an internal width of only 14mm, which is less than ideal for a 35mm-38mm tyre. It's a wheelset which I would have thought better suited to a training/road bike or fast audax use with 28mm or narrower tyres.

I would be guided by Spa's wheelbuilder in the choice of wheels, and depending upon your price point I expect that they would suggest wheels either as alexharvey has already described, or if you wanted to spend more Bitex 103 hubs with Kinlin XM250 rims. I say that because the latter is what Spa's wheelbuilder recommended to me when I wanted wheels for light touring use with ~35mm tyres, and when I subsequently spoke with John Pocklington to order the wheels he commented in passing that they rated Bitex hubs very highly and had yet to have a warranty return involving a Bitex hub. NB The Bitex hub is 11 speed compatible, resulting in a more dished wheel than with an 8/9/10 speed Shimano MTB hub, but that would not influence my choice for your usage if the wheel was built by Spa, and you might indeed intend to choose 11 speed or at least want the option of doing so later.

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m10b0s178p3 ... ce-of-rims

That said, if you are going to use the same bike for commuting, weekend rides and tours, a spare pair of wheels does seem a good idea, so maybe two sets of less expensive Shimano hubbed wheels would be a better option (maybe with a dynamo hub on at least one set for winter lighting).

The choice of the steel Elan vs the steel Tourer probably comes down to your personal preference regarding disc vs rim brakes, and the handling you prefer, so I would suggest that if possible you arrange a back to back test ride of both to see how you find the differences. If you preferred the Elan, you could then discuss their recommended options for disc wheelsets similar to those above for rim brakes, e.g. possibly Kinlin XR-26RTS rims with XT 6 bolt hubs or Bitex BX106 Centrelock hubs.

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m10b0s178p2 ... isc-6-Bolt

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m10b0s178p4 ... im-options
PH
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Re: Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

Post by PH »

I have a Hewitt Cheviot tourer which is no that dissimilar to a Spa Tourer. I no longer tour on it so have built it up lighter and use it for faster day rides, some Audax and occasionally a B&B overnighter. It's fine, it's no road bike but doesn't lose much to a trad Audax bike (I've had a couple), plus it takes wider tyres which I prefer. However there's a difference between being fine and being the first choice if starting with a blank sheet, for that use which sounds like most of yours, I wouldn't have bought it.
On some levels a bike's a bike and you'd be fine on either, I wouldn't be looking at full on tourers, unless I was intending to do a fair amount of full on touring.
Lastly, one bike, two wheelsets - it hasn't worked for me the two times I've tried it, both times I've ended up with a second bike, no bad thing, except if I'd started out with the intention of two they'd have been a different two. I know it works for some, I also know I'm not the only one who's tried it and moved on.
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531colin
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Re: Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

Post by 531colin »

newtotouring wrote: 25 Jul 2021, 10:08pm Hello,

After much consideration over the last year, I am looking to upgrade my current bicycle to either a Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

The bike will be used for commuting 15 miles a day, day rides of up to 60 miles and 1 or 2 mini-tours each year carrying x2 15 litre panniers on the rear with a bar bag on the front or possibly (in the case of the Spa Tourer), x2 small front panniers and a rack-pack with fold out panniers on the rear...............
Light wheels won't make a measurable difference to a half hour commute (except possibly by being pointlessly fragile) and I wouldn't want a light wheelset for touring with panniers....so are the light wheels for day rides? That wouldn't be my choice, simply because its on day rides that I find myself going down narrow bumpy potholed minor roads, because "I've never been down here before!" (I understand that not everybody does this!) More "bang for your buck" in decent tyres than "light" wheels.

My advice is to make an appointment to go to Spa and test ride some bikes.....make sure they have "testers" in your size available.
Try the Tourer, try the Elan. My advice again....if you want to save some weight, spend out on a titanium Elan with carbon fork, and have just one, practical, wheelset. (you can have a steel fork as well, just in case you want to do a month camping.)
(I didn't want to learn a whole new type of brake at 70 years old.....but the thing just rides so nice.....and it turns out BB7 "MTB" cable discs are very easy to live with. How much can you save by having bar end levers instead of STIs?)
Ianwhitwell
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Re: Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

Post by Ianwhitwell »

Last June I visited SPA with the intention of buying a wayfarer for touring and day rides - I'd read some great reviews( I wanted disc brakes). Unfortunately, they were out of my size at the time, though they were awaiting a new shipment at the end of August (apparently delays due to Covid in Taiwan). When I chased this up in September, they still didn't have the frames and had no firm date for the stock arriving. The owner suggested to me after some discussion, that I consider the Elan 725 and have a steel fork if I wanted to tour ( they had a full range of sizes in this). I visited in late September took my size for a very long ride, I was there about 3 hours in total and finished by specifying the build I wanted and collecting it 6 weeks later. I haven't had a chance to do a full tour on it yet, but will do this summer, but I have covered a little under 1000 miles on it and I am very happy. I ride on mixed terrain and have Marathon Mondial 700 *40 and have been very happy with these. I am a leisure rider rather than a racer, so not really assessed the speed of the bike. However, it's comfortable and capable on mixed terrain, well built and I've not regretted the purchase at any point. Value for money wise I don't think you can get a better bike, given everything but the frame is bespoke to your wishes. Hope you are successful in getting what you want.
slowster
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Re: Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

Post by slowster »

I would not normally consider a second set of wheels for a bike, but the OP's post indicates that he only has/will have one bike, which will be used for commuting, weekend rides and tours. In that situation I think it can make sense to have two very similar/identical sets of wheels that can be swapped with minimal adjustment, i.e. the same rims if a rim braked bike or the same hubs if a disc braked bike. In the OP's situation with one bike the need to stay on top of maintenance becomes more critical, and a spare set of wheels would reduce much of the risk and worry of a mechanical issue being a major problem, especially immediately before a tour.
newtotouring
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Re: Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

Post by newtotouring »

Thanks to all above for your thoughts on this.
st599_uk
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Re: Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

Post by st599_uk »

Ianwhitwell wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 8:24pm Last June I visited SPA with the intention of buying a wayfarer for touring and day rides - I'd read some great reviews( I wanted disc brakes). Unfortunately, they were out of my size at the time, though they were awaiting a new shipment at the end of August (apparently delays due to Covid in Taiwan). When I chased this up in September, they still didn't have the frames and had no firm date for the stock arriving. The owner suggested to me after some discussion, that I consider the Elan 725 and have a steel fork if I wanted to tour ( they had a full range of sizes in this). I visited in late September took my size for a very long ride, I was there about 3 hours in total and finished by specifying the build I wanted and collecting it 6 weeks later. I haven't had a chance to do a full tour on it yet, but will do this summer, but I have covered a little under 1000 miles on it and I am very happy. I ride on mixed terrain and have Marathon Mondial 700 *40 and have been very happy with these. I am a leisure rider rather than a racer, so not really assessed the speed of the bike. However, it's comfortable and capable on mixed terrain, well built and I've not regretted the purchase at any point. Value for money wise I don't think you can get a better bike, given everything but the frame is bespoke to your wishes. Hope you are successful in getting what you want.
Can the Elan take those 622-40 tyres with mudguards?

I'm interested in something similar, lightish touring with small tent, hotel touring, commuting and the odd shorter Audax. I'm torn between the Wayfarer, D'Tour and Elan.
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531colin
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Re: Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

Post by 531colin »

st599_uk wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 10:16am ............
Can the Elan take those 622-40 tyres with mudguards?

I'm interested in something similar, lightish touring with small tent, hotel touring, commuting and the odd shorter Audax. I'm torn between the Wayfarer, D'Tour and Elan.
Its the usual advice.....phone up to make sure they have test bikes in your size, visit the shop and go ride the bikes!
Elan frame/fork has plenty of clearance for 40mm tyres......if you need a small size, just check there is enough room for your toes to clear the mudguard with a big tyre.....the dimension to check is "front centre" this is the distance between BB axle and front wheel axle. Measure up on an existing bike and see the geometry tables on Spa website.
wirral_cyclist
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Re: Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

Post by wirral_cyclist »

st599_uk wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 10:16am
Can the Elan take those 622-40 tyres with mudguards?

I'm interested in something similar, lightish touring with small tent, hotel touring, commuting and the odd shorter Audax. I'm torn between the Wayfarer, D'Tour and Elan.
Yes, the Elan takes 40's with mudguard or 45 without mudguard, this household currently has just a Ti version, but we have a 725 steel version due soon.
Ianwhitwell
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Re: Spa Elan 725 or Spa Tourer with light wheelset

Post by Ianwhitwell »

Can the Elan take those 622-40 tyres with mudguards?

I'm interested in something similar, lightish touring with small tent, hotel touring, commuting and the odd shorter Audax. I'm torn between the Wayfarer, D'Tour and Elan.

Yes I have them with mudguards. There isn't a massive gap, but I've not had any issues so far. Very happy.
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