Endurance bikes - British manufacturers ?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Jamesh
Posts: 2963
Joined: 2 Jan 2017, 5:56pm

Re: Endurance bikes - British manufacturers ?

Post by Jamesh »

Does quality steel really rust?

I've had half a dozen steel bikes and not had an issue.

If commuting or off road riding then yes steel isn't the best material but for general touring I think it's quite adequate?

How about an enigma xcr?

Cheers James
philvantwo
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Joined: 8 Dec 2012, 6:08pm

Re: Endurance bikes - British manufacturers ?

Post by philvantwo »

Non-rusting steel? Why do you think they've spent years repainting the Forth rail bridge james!! Although the latest coat they gave it is expected to last 25yrs. Have you got an Enigma bike james?
pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Endurance bikes - British manufacturers ?

Post by pwa »

Jamesh wrote: 9 Oct 2021, 8:12am Does quality steel really rust?

I've had half a dozen steel bikes and not had an issue.

If commuting or off road riding then yes steel isn't the best material but for general touring I think it's quite adequate?

How about an enigma xcr?

Cheers James
Yes it does. I have scrapped a frame made with Columbus Nivacrom, and one made with Reynolds 725, both having corroded on the top tube around the forward cable stop. Repeated touch up paint had not worked. The bloke at Argos Cycles reckoned some folk (including me) have acidic sweat which makes modern paints /enamels soften and fail. So for me, keeping paint in good order is a losing battle. And repainting every couple of years is something I don't want to do. It is a drain on cash and having to dismantle the whole bike is a job I can do without. My solution is either painted stainless steel, where damage to the paint is just cosmetic, or titanium. The latter is cheaper so that is what I have.

For anyone not endowed with such acidic sweat the rust problem may be trivial, and I envy them. I wish I could make a non-stainless steel frame last without having a new coat of paint every couple of years. That would be great.
Bmblbzzz
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Location: From here to there.

Re: Endurance bikes - British manufacturers ?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Odd, I've previously heard the "acidic sweat" thing attributed to an unnamed builder in the Midlands. I would have thought it was actually the salt content of sweat that was more corrosive than the acidity.
pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Endurance bikes - British manufacturers ?

Post by pwa »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 9 Oct 2021, 2:55pm Odd, I've previously heard the "acidic sweat" thing attributed to an unnamed builder in the Midlands. I would have thought it was actually the salt content of sweat that was more corrosive than the acidity.
Could be. I know some people find their sweat permanently stains white cotton clothing. The "acid" explanation was supplied by Argos in answer to my questioning why their paint job hadn't survived longer, and prior to them repainting a frame set for me. The new paint job lasted a couple of years before I had the same relentless rust in the same area on the top tube.
Jamesh
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Joined: 2 Jan 2017, 5:56pm

Re: Endurance bikes - British manufacturers ?

Post by Jamesh »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 9 Oct 2021, 2:55pm Odd, I've previously heard the "acidic sweat" thing attributed to an unnamed builder in the Midlands. I would have thought it was actually the salt content of sweat that was more corrosive than the acidity.
Definitely true my dad has rusted through a couple of frames on the turbo trainer due to sweat dropping into top tube.

Cheers James
rotavator
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Location: North Wales

Re: Endurance bikes - British manufacturers ?

Post by rotavator »

Jamesh wrote: 9 Oct 2021, 8:12am Does quality steel really rust?

I've had half a dozen steel bikes and not had an issue.

If commuting or off road riding then yes steel isn't the best material but for general touring I think it's quite adequate?
I have two Thorn steel bikes, both made in Taiwan and bought in 2005, and neither has any rust on it which I attribute to the quality of the paintwork.
Jules59
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Joined: 16 Jan 2019, 2:34pm

Re: Endurance bikes - British manufacturers ?

Post by Jules59 »

Again thanks for all the replies.
philvantwo
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Joined: 8 Dec 2012, 6:08pm

Re: Endurance bikes - British manufacturers ?

Post by philvantwo »

Not sure why james keeps recommending brands that he's never owned?
Bmblbzzz
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Location: From here to there.

Re: Endurance bikes - British manufacturers ?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

If you really want something that's totally built in Britain, not just designed, you could go to this guy: https://www.clandestine.cc
Jamesh
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Re: Endurance bikes - British manufacturers ?

Post by Jamesh »

philvantwo wrote: 9 Oct 2021, 8:18pm Not sure why james keeps recommending brands that he's never owned?
I read reviews!

How's the house hunting going?

Cheers James
pwa
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Re: Endurance bikes - British manufacturers ?

Post by pwa »

rotavator wrote: 9 Oct 2021, 6:47pm
Jamesh wrote: 9 Oct 2021, 8:12am Does quality steel really rust?

I've had half a dozen steel bikes and not had an issue.

If commuting or off road riding then yes steel isn't the best material but for general touring I think it's quite adequate?
I have two Thorn steel bikes, both made in Taiwan and bought in 2005, and neither has any rust on it which I attribute to the quality of the paintwork.
My Club Tour lasted quite well but eventually went around the forward cable stop on the top tube, in spite of me using car wax in that and other areas. Sadly, our Raven Twin tandem has shed paint despite having had relatively little use since the first burst of enthusiasm. Both had powder coating which came with a lot of blurb from Thorn about the process and how it was going to be the toughest paint job ever. But I still finished up with unsightly areas of touch up paint, and Thorn frames aren't cheap. For me, paint isn't a good protective layer and I won't be spending any more money on a frame set that relies on it for anything more than purely cosmetic purposes. My experience if titanium is that it works out cheaper in the long run, for me at least. And more relaxing. I don't have the stress of seeing a cycling masterpiece disfigured by touch up paint.
nomm
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Re: Endurance bikes - British manufacturers ?

Post by nomm »

We have a 1990s Canadian made Peugeot in the garage - made of nothing fancy steel, not that well looked after before it became my sisters commuter... Small scuffs on the paint work...no rust

I have a (now older model) thorn Audax 853, used 2x weekly rollers/day/club/after work and light touring rides - I sweat like a pig on my rollers - no rust - BTW the welds on this are so clean and shaped it looks like carbon

Previously had a Marin Murwoods (90s) mountain bike (left outside a lot), Jamis 653 (left outside a lot), Light Blue Wolfson over the past 15 years - no rust issues

I do use helli tape in the right areas and cable/frame protectors...

While I am sure if I turned all these frames inside out (although the Thorn is coated inside) I would see some evidence of surface rust... but to discount it as a frame material because its 'retro' or 'at risk of rust'... seems a little strange considering how many modern frame builders swear by it - Shand, Mason, Fairlight, Lightblue, Genesis etc etc, never mind the smaller bespoke makers
Bonzo Banana
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Re: Endurance bikes - British manufacturers ?

Post by Bonzo Banana »

Jamesh wrote: 9 Oct 2021, 8:12am Does quality steel really rust?

I've had half a dozen steel bikes and not had an issue.

If commuting or off road riding then yes steel isn't the best material but for general touring I think it's quite adequate?

How about an enigma xcr?

Cheers James
A few years ago I was interested in bike manufacturing and did some research. One of the companies I ended up looking at was fuji-ta the biggest bike manufacturer in the world by volume and the manufacturer behind a huge number of bike brands in the west; Cannondale, Bianchi, Specialized, Carrera, Btwin, Muddyfox etc. They manufactured a huge range of bikes at every price level. Anyway they did steel frames including 1040 which were robot welded, phosphate dipped (i.e. galvanised) and the factory door price of such frames back then was about $4-5 and they were much lighter than old school steel frames being close to chromoly steel in weight. It was staggering quality for very little money. In the time it took to hand assemble and manufacture one carbon fibre frame they had probably made 100s of steel frames. The factory door price for a open mould carbon fibre frame was $80 back then for comparison and I think aluminium frames were around $20. These prices included painting the frame but were just the frames and didn't include the price of a fork.

Chromoly steel corrodes just as fast as high tensile steel typically and I reckon modern phosphate dipped frames would have much better corrosion protection than older frames. Of course not all steel frames today are phosphate dipped. It's an extra production stage which of course costs some money.

Nowadays low end steel bikes are coming from countries like Sri Lanka and Bangladesh and more basic factories who are out competing mainland China and Cambodia and Vietnam on price so there may have been a slight reduction in entry level bike quality.

Before Toys R Us closed I remember seeing basic children's bikes on the showroom that showed obvious signs of rust and some of the low end Argos bikes seem to be very fast to rust as I saw a new bike of theirs parked up locally and that had paint bubbles and some obvious early signs of rust. I'm pretty sure the very cheapest steel bikes are not phosphate dipped. Many bikes that aren't phosphate dipped have paint that will chip off quite easily so that is a giveaway to lack of phosphate dipping. I believe aluminium frames are also phosphate dipped from memory to again prevent corrosion and provide a better surface for paint to adhere to.
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Paul Smith SRCC
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Re: Endurance bikes - British manufacturers ?

Post by Paul Smith SRCC »

Jules59 wrote: 2 Oct 2021, 4:13pm....Disk brakes and full mudguards and maybe a pannier....I'm looking at the £2k to £3.5K range....I'd like to buy "British" if possible...I quite fancy a Ti bike...
Jim wrote: 8 Oct 2021, 4:57pm What about Mercian? British made? - yes. Expensive? Yes. Superb quality? yes.
There are quite a few UK builders who still build quality steel frames in the traditional way that should give a long service, as well as the desired riding experience and potentially in budget.Note as most will be independent builders there will no doubt be some flexibility interms of price, by that I mean at first glance they may seem to be over your price range of £3.5k for a complete bike and some focus on their frames only but they are normally more than happy to talk about a full bike build; no harm in referencing what you are looking for, your budget and see what they can come up with for you.

Dave Yates My thirty year old Pearson Fixie frame mentioned upthread was built by them so can personally vouch for their workmanship.
Enigma Note they don't promote traditional lugged frames but they can do them
Hallett Taught by one of the most respected frame builders; Cliff Shrubb
Mercian Cycles One of the most respected traditional frame builders I know of
Geoff Roberts Few will have more personal experience than Geoff, one of the famous Roberts Cycles family.

The above represent a few that come to mind who may be able to get within your budget. There are more who offer welded steel frames that I have not referenced as they are inclined to be more expensive. For sure Jules59 had a wish list of UK built, £2k to £3.5K range and Ti but if you can't tick all three boxes compromises need to be made. Personally I have Ti bikes and can tell the difference over the steel frames both of mine replaced; but I was happy with the quality of my Far East built frames, especially as back in 2007 there was no UK Ti frame builder. If UK built is the focus of what Jules59 desires personally I would be more than happy with a quality UK built steel frame by any of those I have referenced above 8)
Last edited by Paul Smith SRCC on 11 Oct 2021, 6:13pm, edited 4 times in total.
Paul Smith. 37 Years in the Cycle Trade
My personal cycling blog, Bike Fitter at C & N Cycles
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