Mtb groupset on "road" bike.

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
djnotts
Posts: 3036
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Mtb groupset on "road" bike.

Post by djnotts »

The more I research, the more I think that the truth of the matter is best summarised by a poster on another forum:

"Actually, get five or six TRP Spyre calipers (at least!) and try them all, one after another until you find one that works. QA and manufacturing tolerances on TRP Spyre are so crappy that buying just one caliper for each wheel will almost surely turn into an extremely frustrating experience, waste of time and waste of money."

So ..... trying to find a bb5, once I have figured out what fits flat mounts!
gregoryoftours
Posts: 2234
Joined: 22 May 2011, 7:14pm

Re: Mtb groupset on "road" bike.

Post by gregoryoftours »

Seriously skip the BB5 and go for a BB7. The pad adjuster on the moving side is a superior design. I've quite often seen BB5 run out of adjustment before the pads are properly worn.
CinnabarMoth
Posts: 50
Joined: 5 Nov 2021, 7:46am

Re: Mtb groupset on "road" bike.

Post by CinnabarMoth »

I have recently installed TRP Spykes on my mtb.
I experience great performance, no complaints at all.
Are the pads able to move freely? Is the disc in good condition?
djnotts
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Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Mtb groupset on "road" bike.

Post by djnotts »

gregoryoftours wrote: 5 Nov 2021, 6:46pm Seriously skip the BB5 and go for a BB7. The pad adjuster on the moving side is a superior design. I've quite often seen BB5 run out of adjustment before the pads are properly worn.
I understand that 7 better than 5, but expensive!
djnotts
Posts: 3036
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Mtb groupset on "road" bike.

Post by djnotts »

CinnabarMoth wrote: 8 Nov 2021, 10:09pm I have recently installed TRP Spykes on my mtb.
I experience great performance, no complaints at all.
Are the pads able to move freely? Is the disc in good condition?
Spykes different pull and flat bar levers, probably controbutes to better performance- plus the reported quality hit and miss!

Pads move OK as far as I can tell. And disc seems little used.

About to try flat bar levers with the Spyre, if no change then full mtb hydraulic set up next step!
CinnabarMoth
Posts: 50
Joined: 5 Nov 2021, 7:46am

Re: Mtb groupset on "road" bike.

Post by CinnabarMoth »

djnotts wrote: 8 Nov 2021, 11:06pm
CinnabarMoth wrote: 8 Nov 2021, 10:09pm I have recently installed TRP Spykes on my mtb.
I experience great performance, no complaints at all.
Are the pads able to move freely? Is the disc in good condition?
Spykes different pull and flat bar levers, probably controbutes to better performance- plus the reported quality hit and miss!

Pads move OK as far as I can tell. And disc seems little used.

About to try flat bar levers with the Spyre, if no change then full mtb hydraulic set up next step!
If the pads move ok and contact the disc then I struggle to imagine why there should be something wrong with the braking mechanism?
Unless the pads are positioned too far from the disc, mine are about 1mm away from the disc before the lever is pulled.
After all they function the same way as rim brakes except that they apply pressure to the disc rather than the wheel rim.
I would say that if the pads are moving fine and pressure can be applied to the disc then the lack of stopping power must likely be due to the condition of the pads , disc or both.
Have you tried changing the pads and cleaning the disc?
djnotts
Posts: 3036
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Mtb groupset on "road" bike.

Post by djnotts »

"If the pads move ok and contact the disc then I struggle to imagine why there should be something wrong with the braking mechanism?
Unless the pads are positioned too far from the disc, mine are about 1mm away from the disc before the lever is pulled.
After all they function the same way as rim brakes except that they apply pressure to the disc rather than the wheel rim.
I would say that if the pads are moving fine and pressure can be applied to the disc then the lack of stopping power must likely be due to the condition of the pads , disc or both.
Have you tried changing the pads and cleaning the disc?
[/quote]"

I share your struggle!

New, expensive, pads fitted. I will reclean the disc because although new flat bar set up I did today has improved the rear a little I remain very unimpressed.

I will recheck clearance and also try to see if pads are hitting rotor squarely. After that .... I am about done with it. I have spent far too much time on this already.
MrCJF
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Joined: 5 Aug 2020, 1:42pm
Location: Fleet, Hampshire

Re: Mtb groupset on "road" bike.

Post by MrCJF »

I'm in a similar position as djnotts, I have Spyres on my Boardman ADV and they have never worked well in comparison to the Hayes CX on my Genesis CdF. They eat through pads no matter which ones I buy, and the pad adjuster screws are so easy to round (as they are small and you can't see them to know if the key is properly engaged). I have swapped the front brake for a Hayes, but the Hayes plus adapter won't fit the rear rear on the ADV. so looking for an alternative the same size as the TRP SPyre to fit in the rear triangle.

I'm considering the Hy/RD as it gets good reviews - but are they as variable as the Spyre?
djnotts
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Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Mtb groupset on "road" bike.

Post by djnotts »

"......onsidering the Hy/RD as it gets good reviews - but are they as variable as the Spyre?"

I'm awaiting delivery of a 2nd hand pair.
If I come to any conclusions I will post here!
mattsccm
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: Mtb groupset on "road" bike.

Post by mattsccm »

Chinese versios of the Hydro thigs by TRP are great ad cheap. Try Aliexpress.
djnotts
Posts: 3036
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Mtb groupset on "road" bike.

Post by djnotts »

djnotts wrote: 16 Nov 2021, 12:11pm "......onsidering the Hy/RD as it gets good reviews - but are they as variable as the Spyre?"

I'm awaiting delivery of a 2nd hand pair.
If I come to any conclusions I will post here!
These never materialised - established not flat mount as described but post mount (adapters possible I know but availability not great and would have added to cost!).

So, bought a set of Spyre copies (Nutt) from a UK source, as much out of curiosity as belief would be better. But having swopped the useless rear Spyre to the Nutt, it IS better. It stops me. Not like hydraulics, but an improvement sufficiently significant to keep the bike.

Reinforces my view that Spyres have very varied performance - and are grossly overpriced.
gregoryoftours
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Joined: 22 May 2011, 7:14pm

Re: Mtb groupset on "road" bike.

Post by gregoryoftours »

'If the pads move ok and contact the disc then I struggle to imagine why there should be something wrong with the braking mechanism?'

The tolerances are pretty poor in an unacceptably high proportion of trp Spyres in my experience. The pads move no problem, but they aren't properly parallel to the rotor or each other as they meet which results in bad performance. It improves a little bit not a lot as the pads wear unevenly to conform to the rotor surface.
Graham O
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Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 7:54am

Re: Mtb groupset on "road" bike.

Post by Graham O »

I had exactly the same problem with my Spyres and posted here about 3 years ago. The brakes as they came on the bike were truly dangerous and after changing the cables to compressionless ones last winter (haven't been out cycling much) they are better, but not as good as people were claiming for them when I bought the bike.
One thing I did find was that the caliper is not centred on the disc just by tightening the bolts up. The hole in the caliper is larger than the bolt diameter, so it can be set up with the caliper offset to the left, the right, top in or bottom in. This may have been part of the problem. I carefully set them up now so that the braking force is (hopefully) equal on both sides of the rotor and it is better than they have ever been, but not as good as my other bike with V brakes.
CinnabarMoth
Posts: 50
Joined: 5 Nov 2021, 7:46am

Re: Mtb groupset on "road" bike.

Post by CinnabarMoth »

gregoryoftours wrote: 3 Dec 2021, 6:58pm 'If the pads move ok and contact the disc then I struggle to imagine why there should be something wrong with the braking mechanism?'

The tolerances are pretty poor in an unacceptably high proportion of trp Spyres in my experience. The pads move no problem, but they aren't properly parallel to the rotor or each other as they meet which results in bad performance. It improves a little bit not a lot as the pads wear unevenly to conform to the rotor surface.
Not sure if this is connected to the problem you outline but the instructions for mounting my Spyke callipers require the bolts to be loose
enough to allow some play in the calliper, the break lever is then pulled firmly enough to clamp the pads hard (and presumably flat ) on the disk and while still squeezing the brake lever the calliper mounting bolts are tightened, this ensures that whatever possition the pads may start out in while in the open position they will be flat to the disc when closed.
No idea if this is the same with Spyres but on the Spikes there is also the facility to micro adjust the possition of each pad independently.
gxaustin
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Joined: 23 Sep 2015, 12:07pm

Re: Mtb groupset on "road" bike.

Post by gxaustin »

Considered the HY/RD option, but reviews suggest they also are a bit hit and miss in effectiveness - and pricey.
I have them on my winter bike. My review would be that they are excellent, but a little fiddly to set up to give a short pull on the levers. In fact you won't be able to get as short a pull as with mechanical brakes IMO - but they stop very effectively. They work noticably better with incompressible outers. After 4 winters they have had to be bled once - and it was a bit of a palaver. I had to clamp the bike nose down in my stand due to the orientation of the caliper unit at the rear.
I don't remember that they were all that expensive but obviously much dearer than cheapo mechanical disc calipers.
As far as the OP's bike I'd try road flat bar shifters before mucking about with mtb chainline and gearing.
I went that route on a past bike. I found that the pressure required to shift the front road mech was too much for my thumbs so I changed to drop bars (different bike).
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