Hunting for a new frame

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Graham O
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Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 7:54am

Hunting for a new frame

Post by Graham O »

Hi,
I'm looking for a new frame for a bike build for my wife. I'm a bit out of touch with the current bike market as it's been a few years since my last bike build. Ideally, I want to have a hub gear on it and also space for wide tyres. Probably flat or Jones type bars. A hub gear is easiest to set up with horizontal dropouts, but most frames with these are narrow tyres only. I would want to fit 37mm tyres. So far the only option I've found is the Surly Steamroller. Does anyone know of any other frame options please?

Thanks for your help

Graham
slowster
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Re: Hunting for a new frame

Post by slowster »

Which hub gear(s) are you considering? The Steamroller rear OLN is 120mm, and I think that would rule out a lot of hub gears with the exception of 3 speed and some 5 speed models. You could cold set the frame to respace it, but I would not want to buy a new frame which needed that from the outset.

I think most other hub gears, such as Shimano's Nexus 8 speed, the Alfine and Rohloff require 135mm OLN, and there is a very limited choice of suitable frames which incorporate chain tensioning by way of track ends, adjustable drop outs or an eccentric bottom bracket, and they are likely to cost significantly more. One such frame is the Salsa Marakesh:

https://www.salsacycles.com/bikes/2019_ ... h_frameset

https://keeppedalling.co.uk/bikes/salsa ... marrakesh/

One alternative option would be to use a standard frame with vertical drop outs and fit a chain tensioner. That should greatly widen the choice of suitable frames, most of which would also be less expensive.

Another option would be to buy an off the shelf bike fitted with a hub gear, which might give better value for money than trying to find a suitable frame and buying individual parts to build up the bike yourself. German brands offer the widest choice of such bikes, e.g. the hub gear models in Cube's Travel range and similarly the hub gear models offered by Vsf Fahrradmanufaktur:

https://www.cube.eu/en/2022/bikes/city- ... ad/travel/

https://www.fahrradmanufaktur.de/en/

Vsf Fahrradmanufaktur no longer has any UK retailers thanks to Brexit, so you would need to buy online from Bikester, and many models are not available right now due to the continuing impact of Covid on the bike industry (although I imagine this will improve as we move into 2022).

https://www.bikester.co.uk/vsf-fahrradmanufaktur/
pwa
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Re: Hunting for a new frame

Post by pwa »

Thorn?
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Paulatic
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Re: Hunting for a new frame

Post by Paulatic »

Vsf Fahrradmanufaktur no longer has any UK retailers
Remember the OP is in Portugal.
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Jupestar
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Re: Hunting for a new frame

Post by Jupestar »

Genesis? Brixton, Day One, Flyer

Boardman? URB.

Pashley - i'm not that familar to name brands.

Mostly in Disc brakes.

There is quite slim pickings in new frames, unless you go really top end, but at this point you may as well get one built. - i was after the same and although not particular helpful for you, I eventually picked up a secondhand Velo De Ville in great condition - has a low top tube frame (not quite step though). Has and EBB, as welll as braze on and mounts for all brake and gear combo. My wife loves it. and i have to say its a great quality piece of kit.

Do you have a preference for Alloy, Steel?
Graham O
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Re: Hunting for a new frame

Post by Graham O »

Thank you all, and it does seem like a limited market. I was reading last night about chain tensioners and it could be that that is the way to go which will also give flexibility if I want to get rid of the IGH. I am considering a Shimano Nexus or Alfine 8 hub. My main reason is single gear control and ability to change while stationary. But I could get single gear control with a 1 * derailleur setup.

Well done on my location Paulatic, but despite living in Europes biggest bike producing country, trying to find a good bike shop is difficult (although with more bike routes being planned in this area, that may change) and I'm having to find a whole new range of bike bit suppliers throughout Europe. Unfortunately Spa don't ship to Europe and with Covid, I've not been in the UK for nearly 2 years.

An off the shelf bike might be an option, but apart from frame and rear wheels, I have everything else in my box of bits.

So if I change my thoughts to 135mm OLN and vertical dropouts, why should I buy anything other than a Surly Cross Check? I've got one as my main touring, utility, long day ride bike and really love it. Importantly my wife finds it the right size and comfortable as well. But is there something better out there? Has anyone else found their ideal/perfect bike and bought 2 of them for different purposes? Just wondering.
slowster
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Re: Hunting for a new frame

Post by slowster »

Graham O wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 9:39am So if I change my thoughts to 135mm OLN and vertical dropouts, why should I buy anything other than a Surly Cross Check? I've got one as my main touring, utility, long day ride bike and really love it. Importantly my wife finds it the right size and comfortable as well.
The current model Surly Cross Check has horizontal drop outs (which should also have the advantage over track ends of eliminating the need to reposition brake blocks when moving the wheel further back or forward in the drop out).

https://surlybikes.com/bikes/cross_check

Edited to add:
Graham O wrote: 30 Nov 2021, 9:41pmProbably flat or Jones type bars.
I would advise against Jones type bars with a loop: the loop results in bars that are stiffer, and I think the plain gauge aluminium copies of the Jones Loop bars might be stiffer still, as well as being quite heavy. The greater stiffness is a good thing for some uses and some riders, especially off road use with wide MTB tyres, but on a light touring bike frame with 37mm tyres it would probably not be a good choice.

There is quite a wide variety of bars with similar amounts of sweep to the Jones Loop bars, e.g. see Humpert's and Soma's ranges. If your wife does not need or want the greater width of an MTB bar, then she might find that one of the models with a 25.4mm clamp is better for her than the stiffer 31.8mm clamp bars.
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geomannie
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Re: Hunting for a new frame

Post by geomannie »

IMHO for a utility bike, one with mudguards, I would avoid track ends. To remove the rear wheel it has to be pulled backwards which means the wheel/tyre fouls the mudguard. This is the circumstance on my wife's Temple Bike (otherwise very nice) & means unbolting of the rear mudguard stays to give clearance prior to puncture repair. Very tedious, especially if out and about.
geomannie
slowster
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Re: Hunting for a new frame

Post by slowster »

geomannie wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 4:17pm IMHO for a utility bike, one with mudguards, I would avoid track ends. To remove the rear wheel it has to be pulled backwards which means the wheel/tyre fouls the mudguard. This is the circumstance on my wife's Temple Bike (otherwise very nice) & means unbolting of the rear mudguard stays to give clearance prior to puncture repair. Very tedious, especially if out and about.
If you use SKS Secuclips for the rear mudguard, you should be able to pull the V stays out of the Secuclip quite quickly.
soapbox
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Re: Hunting for a new frame

Post by soapbox »

Have a look at Shand cycles in Scotland. I get their posts on facebook and they seem to be able to build pretty much anything and many of their builds are with hub gears (Rohloff, mostly).
mattsccm
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Re: Hunting for a new frame

Post by mattsccm »

I did have a Geneis IO. Single speed MTB so track ends. 26" wheels but 700c went in as not as big as the 26x2.25 MTB tyres used.
The mentioned rear wheel removal probelem and fix has been mentioned but I would question the worry. Mine comes out of my (100 miles of mostly gravel ) commuter about twice a year. Tubeless tyres you see.
A SS dedicated MTB might do the job.
Trek did their Crocket CX bike which I have seen with track ends. No idea how it was done bt that would take 38mm road tyres and was 135mm across the rear end.
Graham O
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Re: Hunting for a new frame

Post by Graham O »

Once again, thank you, lots of information to digest. I was looking at the other Surly frames and I see that quite a few of their trail bikes have got horizontal or trackend dropouts, models, Troll, Ogre, ECR and Karate Monkey. I'm not familiar with how mtb's have developed, but is this something new or just something I've not seen before?
Jamesh
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Re: Hunting for a new frame

Post by Jamesh »

How about getting a decathlon bike ab modifying it to hub gear?

Cheers James
PH
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Re: Hunting for a new frame

Post by PH »

Graham O wrote: 2 Dec 2021, 9:50am I was looking at the other Surly frames and I see that quite a few of their trail bikes have got horizontal or trackend dropouts, models, Troll, Ogre, ECR and Karate Monkey.
I have an Ogre, it's a nice enough bike, though a bit of a tank, suits me for the purpose I bought it for and it is pretty much as Surly describe -
https://surlybikes.com/bikes/ogre

You seem to have considered a wide spectrum of bikes, the only common denominator being that they easily accept hub gears. I have several hub gear bikes, specific frames (EBB and vertical dropouts) and a couple with tensioners. Although there's obvious advantages to a specific frame, I'd rather have the right bike with a tensioner, than the right dropout on the wrong bike! The Shimano hubs are particularly simple to fit to most bikes.
Sorry if that appears rude, but an ECR and a Crosscheck don't belong on the same shortlist.
Graham O
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Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 7:54am

Re: Hunting for a new frame

Post by Graham O »

Certainly the ride quality is more important, so the right frame with a hub gear is more important than a hub gear with a substandard frame.

ECR and Crosscheck are very different bikes for different purposes. My question above was why do they, (the models above) have horizontal drop outs, rather than comparing the two.
Last edited by Graham O on 2 Dec 2021, 8:22pm, edited 1 time in total.
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