Viscount bicycles!!

[Spudh]

Well the Grand Sport arrived yesterday, lovingly disassembld and boxed for courier delivery bu the ebay seller, Thank You very much Collette if you ever stumble across this

Its in reasonable shape for a bike its age, I won't do a whole lot with it for a while, new handle bar tape, a good service and maybe tidy it up a small bit but thats about it. I'm delighted with the lightness and the feel of it, its also pretty quick. I'll need to get new tires. I have a new set of 700C Schwable on my wifes current tourer but the Viscount is 27 1/2 inch wheels so no go there. Any recommendations on tire selection, the intended use will be initially a triathlon bike for my wife who has just taken up sprint triathlons (20k cycle). I promised that we'd look at upgrading once she did 5 or 6, if she feels a change of bike would be worth the investment. If that happens then viscount will be mine and I'll probably do a restoration on it at that stage.

In the mean time the only problem is that the chain wheel hits both sides of the front derailler when I'm pedalling hard. I don't think its the bottom bracket as I can't feel any movement there at all, its either flex in the frame or the shaft . Short term fix will be to widen the derailler slot but has anyone seen much of that before

[Bendo]

Lovely shots Spudh! I'd be very happy with that bike. A bit jealous of those lovely sloping crown forks.

For racing tyres I'd suggest 27 x 1" (ISO 630 x 25). There are only a couple of companies that still make that size. The Panaracer Pasela is the best still available but they're hard to find at the moment. Both Jenson USA and Wiggle are out of them. You can get cheaper ones by Cheng Shin and Duro, but the bike is worth a bit better I reckon.

The front derailleur problem is a bit of a mystery. If you're a strong guy then it's not impossible it could be frame flex. I can't remember where I read this, but I believe the Aerospace tubing is only 0.33mm thick. 3/10th mm tubing was apparently what you had back in the day if you were an original weight weenie, there being no crabon as yet for that purpose. And no-one was weenier in their marketing than Viscount! It's straight gauge too, no butting to stiffen the joints.

Are you sure it's not a bent or loose chainring or a bent spider? Widening the derailleur cage could work, especially if it's pinched at the front. Being friction shifting I know you sometimes have to 'trim' the position of the front derailleur, but that's usually just to avoid the chain hitting it on one side, not both.

Other than tyres, bartape as you said, and those quaint touring pedals, there really doesn't look like much on that bike that needs to change. And you're lucky (or is that unlucky?) that both you and your wife fit the bike. b

[PW]

Try Bike+ in Croydon for the tyres, I think Spa Cycles had a fallout with the importer from the reply I got last time I tried them.
That chainset looks like an old SR unit. They weren't very stiff. A Stronglight Impact might make a good replacement and won't break the bank.

[Spudh]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the advice, I'll definitely be following up on those Panaracer tires. Unfortunately I may have found a source for the flex. I checked for distortion in the chain wheel and it runs very true when back pedalling. But one side of the cross brace behind the BB is showing signs of rust on the bottom side indicating it may be cracked at this point, see photo below. Anyone seen this before? In the mean time I'll try widening the derailler guide and see if that sorts it in the short term

[busaste]

Well the Grand Sport arrived yesterday, lovingly disassembld and boxed for courier delivery bu the ebay seller, Thank You very much Collette if you ever stumble across this

Its in reasonable shape for a bike its age, I won't do a whole lot with it for a while, new handle bar tape, a good service and maybe tidy it up a small bit but thats about it. I'm delighted with the lightness and the feel of it, its also pretty quick. I'll need to get new tires. I have a new set of 700C Schwable on my wifes current tourer but the Viscount is 27 1/2 inch wheels so no go there. Any recommendations on tire selection, the intended use will be initially a triathlon bike for my wife who has just taken up sprint triathlons (20k cycle). I promised that we'd look at upgrading once she did 5 or 6, if she feels a change of bike would be worth the investment. If that happens then viscount will be mine and I'll probably do a restoration on it at that stage.

In the mean time the only problem is that the chain wheel hits both sides of the front derailler when I'm pedalling hard. I don't think its the bottom bracket as I can't feel any movement there at all, its either flex in the frame or the shaft . Short term fix will be to widen the derailler slot but has anyone seen much of that before

Great bike! A 1978 Grand Sport - pretty rare too. I wish I had it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regarding "the only problem is that the chain wheel hits both sides of the front derailler when I'm pedalling hard" I am pretty certain what the problem is. Your right hand crank is not sat square on the bottom bracket spindle (it does not need to be out very much at all). The right hand crank on your bike is not the original one. The giveaway is that it has a one piece cast 'spider'. The original crank/chainset fitted to your bike was made by SR but was of a lower quality; it was swaged to the 5 arm 'spider' rather than the heavy duty casting on the one you have. Both of these SR crank/chainsets were really good pieces of kit. Okay, the cast in one piece spider jobbie was a blatant Capmag rip off but so what? Shame SR has long gone!

So, we know that at some point in the past your cranks were replaced. Whoever fitted the right hand crank has not put it square on the bottom bracket spindle (a common occurrence). The Shimano 600 front derailleur that you have has a pretty narrow cage. Any slight misalignment of the crank on the BB spindle soon manifests itself as chain rub when you put the hammer down. I had exactly the same problem on a Viscount Aerospace Pro a few years back. The simple answer is to refit the offending crank nice and square on the spindle. I tried this on my Pro but...it was impossible to get it square because the tapers on the spindle were out of shape. A NOS spindle was fitted and hey presto every thing was fine. If you do not have a genuine NOS spindle please see the various options available on one of my earlier posts on this thread. There are lots of options to choose from! The most commonly used option is to tap out the BB shell to take an Italian thread and then fit a cartridge unit. Simple, but make sure you get a cartridge unit with a spindle that has an ISO taper (for your SR cranks) and a length that is around 120mm long. If not you will mess up the chainline. Hopefully your LBS will be able to advise here! If you can, go to Hewitt Cycles. They have worked extensively on my Viscounts and know them inside out (foibles, warts and all!!!!!).

There are no flex issues on an Aerospace frame; for mere mortals that is! Viscount claimed that the Phoenix '1027' tubing used for the Aerospace frames was stronger than double butted Reynolds 531 and had independent test data to prove it (that will upset the purists out there). The cast alloy fork is a bit spongy (but gives great ride quality and, ahem, a unique feel). Elite sprint racers might experience slight flex but only at ten tenths, flat out, do or die to the line levels of effort. This is not a fault of the frame material or build quality but simply a product of a long wheelbase and relaxed frame geometry. Some of Viscount's one off frames made for cyclo cross racers were much stiffer being 74 degrees parallel and with an ultra short wheelbase. Wouldn't mind one of these!

Schwalbe do a nice amber walled 27 x 1.25" tyre which runs well at 85 PSI (plain black colour would be heracy!). I got a set at a cycle jumble for £16.

Let us know how you get on.

[Bendo]

[q

Regarding "the only problem is that the chain wheel hits both sides of the front derailler when I'm pedalling hard" I am pretty certain what the problem is. Your right hand crank is not sat square on the bottom bracket spindle (it does not need to be out very much at all). The right hand crank on your bike is not the original one. The giveaway is that it has a one piece cast 'spider'. The original crank/chainset fitted to your bike was made by SR but was of a lower quality; it was swaged to the 5 arm 'spider' rather than the heavy duty casting on the one you have. Both of these SR crank/chainsets were really good pieces of kit. Okay, the cast in one piece spider jobbie was a blatant Capmag rip off but so what? Shame SR has long gone!

So, we know that at some point in the past your cranks were replaced. Whoever fitted the right hand crank has not put it square on the bottom bracket spindle (a common occurrence). The Shimano 600 front derailleur that you have has a pretty narrow cage. Any slight misalignment of the crank on the BB spindle soon manifests itself as chain rub when you put the hammer down. I had exactly the same problem on a Viscount Aerospace Pro a few years back. The simple answer is to refit the offending crank nice and square on the spindle. I tried this on my Pro but...it was impossible to get it square because the tapers on the spindle were out of shape. A NOS spindle was fitted and hey presto every thing was fine. If you do not have a genuine NOS spindle please see the various options available on one of my earlier posts on this thread. There are lots of options to choose from! The most commonly used option is to tap out the BB shell to take an Italian thread and then fit a cartridge unit. Simple, but make sure you get a cartridge unit with a spindle that has an ISO taper (for your SR cranks) and a length that is around 120mm long. If not you will mess up the chainline. Hopefully your LBS will be able to advise here! If you can, go to Hewitt Cycles. They have worked extensively on my Viscounts and know them inside out (foibles, warts and all!!!!!).

There are no flex issues on an Aerospace frame; for mere mortals that is! Viscount claimed that the Phoenix '1027' tubing used for the Aerospace frames was stronger than double butted Reynolds 531 and had independent test data to prove it (that will upset the purists out there). The cast alloy fork is a bit spongy (but gives great ride quality and, ahem, a unique feel). Elite sprint racers might experience slight flex but only at ten tenths, flat out, do or die to the line levels of effort. This is not a fault of the frame material or build quality but simply a product of a long wheelbase and relaxed frame geometry. Some of Viscount's one off frames made for cyclo cross racers were much stiffer being 74 degrees parallel and with an ultra short wheelbase. Wouldn't mind one of these!

Schwalbe do a nice amber walled 27 x 1.25" tyre which runs well at 85 PSI (plain black colour would be heracy!). I got a set at a cycle jumble for £16.

Let us know how you get on.

Great info as usual! You gotta write that Viscount book so we all don't have to keep scrolling through 25 pages of thread...

Are you saying Spudh's fork is cast aluminium? It's half-chromed (is it even possible to chrome plate aluminium?) and the eyelets are a different shape to the aluminium fork's eyelets. I would have said it was some kind of steel. b

[Bendo]

... I'll need to get new tires. I have a new set of 700C Schwable on my wifes current tourer but the Viscount is 27 1/2 inch wheels so no go there. Any recommendations on tire selection, the intended use will be initially a triathlon bike for my wife who has just taken up sprint triathlons (20k cycle)...

eBay item no. 170682460521 is the 27 x 1" Panaracer Pasela, US$20 + shipping. b

[Spudh]

I am pretty certain what the problem is. Your right hand crank is not sat square on the bottom bracket spindle (it does not need to be out very much at all). The right hand crank on your bike is not the original one.

Busaste, thanks for your in-depth post. On inspection last night I noticed some 'bruising' aroung the bottom bracket housing indicating that the bearings have indeed been replaced. I'll have a go off re-seating the the crank this weekend and see how that goes. Incidentally the crank is one of my favorite features of the bike. I'm an Engineer and a great believer in the old school motto 'If it looks right, it is right' and there is just something about that SR crank that appeals to me. I still remember our Dean of Engineering in a lecture hall pointing to the swan neck of a particularly neat overhead projector lauding how 'functionally aesthethic' it was. Well the machining, assembly and appearance of that crank set just looks right to my eye. My other favorite feature is the sloping crown fork. I'd love to have one of the old aluminium 'Death Forks' but this one is the next best thing.

eBay item no. 170682460521 is the 27 x 1" Panaracer Pasela, US$20 + shipping. b

Bendo, thanks for that, 2 tires purchased, exchange rate working in my favour for once

[PW]

Busaste, IIRC that SR crank is a JIS taper, not ISO. I think there's still one in my scrap bucket, 36/52 (who said compacts are new? ) If it's been put in off square there's a strong chance it'll be the crank arm taper which is crackered. I'd replace it and fit a UN5X cartridge B/B unit.
That cross brace between the chainstays isn't load bearing as such, but it may be an idea to sand it back to check the chainstay isn't rotten.

[Spudh]

Busaste, you were spot on.

I took off the cover and bolt holding on the crank was loose! I tightened it up a bit and it improved a lot. I didn't want to tighten it much as the bolt is not a good fit in the spindle. The thread on the bolt is not metric, its somewhere between 1.25 an 1.0 pitch but like I said its not a good fit in the spindle any way, it has a lot of movement in it until it tightens on the crank like its the wrong diameter bolt or something. I'm debating with myself whether to drill it out and re-tap it to take a metric engineering thread, say 10mm bolt with 1.0 pitch and use a longer bolt to extend inside the bearing shell (the bolt thats in it is only about 25mm long).

[busaste]

Busaste, IIRC that SR crank is a JIS taper, not ISO. I think there's still one in my scrap bucket, 36/52 (who said compacts are new? ) If it's been put in off square there's a strong chance it'll be the crank arm taper which is crackered. I'd replace it and fit a UN5X cartridge B/B unit.
That cross brace between the chainstays isn't load bearing as such, but it may be an idea to sand it back to check the chainstay isn't rotten.

Thanks for pointing out my error! What was I thinking? ISO taper is nonsense! JIS taper it is.

I was lucky with my cranks. The taper was in good shape on both of them. The Viscount OE BB spindle seems to be made of quite soft metal although Viscount claimed to have used Cro Mo steel. My LBS refers to it as "cheese metal"!

[busaste]

Busaste, you were spot on.

I took off the cover and bolt holding on the crank was loose! I tightened it up a bit and it improved a lot. I didn't want to tighten it much as the bolt is not a good fit in the spindle. The thread on the bolt is not metric, its somewhere between 1.25 an 1.0 pitch but like I said its not a good fit in the spindle any way, it has a lot of movement in it until it tightens on the crank like its the wrong diameter bolt or something. I'm debating with myself whether to drill it out and re-tap it to take a metric engineering thread, say 10mm bolt with 1.0 pitch and use a longer bolt to extend inside the bearing shell (the bolt thats in it is only about 25mm long).

Sounds like you are in the home straight!

You have to be really careful with Viscount and Lambert crank bolts. I have broken loads in my time (not too bad really, 100s of bike dealers did just the same in the 1970s!). They are okay to reuse once but after that, it is a bit touch and go whether they will survive another few crank refits.

The OE crank bolt is NOT metric. A while ago I got a fiend of mine who is into vintage British motorbikes to suss out what it is. His verdict - 22 tpi, 5/16 BSF.

I got the BB spindle on one of my Aerospce Pros tapped out by my LBS (Hewitt Cycles who have ended up being Viscount experts due to having to solve my bikes more 'challenging' problems) to take a decent metric bolt. Perfect, and no breakages!

[busaste]

Isn't it a good thread this?

I started it in March 2008 and never imagined it would still be going after 3 years.

THANKS to all the contributors and the CTC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Long may this thread (the best on CTC's forum) continue!

Busaste

[busaste]

[q

Regarding "the only problem is that the chain wheel hits both sides of the front derailler when I'm pedalling hard" I am pretty certain what the problem is. Your right hand crank is not sat square on the bottom bracket spindle (it does not need to be out very much at all). The right hand crank on your bike is not the original one. The giveaway is that it has a one piece cast 'spider'. The original crank/chainset fitted to your bike was made by SR but was of a lower quality; it was swaged to the 5 arm 'spider' rather than the heavy duty casting on the one you have. Both of these SR crank/chainsets were really good pieces of kit. Okay, the cast in one piece spider jobbie was a blatant Capmag rip off but so what? Shame SR has long gone!

So, we know that at some point in the past your cranks were replaced. Whoever fitted the right hand crank has not put it square on the bottom bracket spindle (a common occurrence). The Shimano 600 front derailleur that you have has a pretty narrow cage. Any slight misalignment of the crank on the BB spindle soon manifests itself as chain rub when you put the hammer down. I had exactly the same problem on a Viscount Aerospace Pro a few years back. The simple answer is to refit the offending crank nice and square on the spindle. I tried this on my Pro but...it was impossible to get it square because the tapers on the spindle were out of shape. A NOS spindle was fitted and hey presto every thing was fine. If you do not have a genuine NOS spindle please see the various options available on one of my earlier posts on this thread. There are lots of options to choose from! The most commonly used option is to tap out the BB shell to take an Italian thread and then fit a cartridge unit. Simple, but make sure you get a cartridge unit with a spindle that has an ISO taper (for your SR cranks) and a length that is around 120mm long. If not you will mess up the chainline. Hopefully your LBS will be able to advise here! If you can, go to Hewitt Cycles. They have worked extensively on my Viscounts and know them inside out (foibles, warts and all!!!!!).

There are no flex issues on an Aerospace frame; for mere mortals that is! Viscount claimed that the Phoenix '1027' tubing used for the Aerospace frames was stronger than double butted Reynolds 531 and had independent test data to prove it (that will upset the purists out there). The cast alloy fork is a bit spongy (but gives great ride quality and, ahem, a unique feel). Elite sprint racers might experience slight flex but only at ten tenths, flat out, do or die to the line levels of effort. This is not a fault of the frame material or build quality but simply a product of a long wheelbase and relaxed frame geometry. Some of Viscount's one off frames made for cyclo cross racers were much stiffer being 74 degrees parallel and with an ultra short wheelbase. Wouldn't mind one of these!

Schwalbe do a nice amber walled 27 x 1.25" tyre which runs well at 85 PSI (plain black colour would be heracy!). I got a set at a cycle jumble for £16.

Let us know how you get on.

Great info as usual! You gotta write that Viscount book so we all don't have to keep scrolling through 25 pages of thread...

Are you saying Spudh's fork is cast aluminium? It's half-chromed (is it even possible to chrome plate aluminium?) and the eyelets are a different shape to the aluminium fork's eyelets. I would have said it was some kind of steel. b

Spudh's fork is definitely steel. These appeared on 1978 Aerospace Pro's and Grand Sports. Very nice too!

[Bendo]

Grrr! Just missed out on a nice Viscount catalogue on Fleabay. I had $17 on it and was outbid in the last second! That was only the second bid too! Had a look at the winning bidder and they had more than 4000 Fleabay transactions to their name, so I don't suppose it was any of you guys... Probably a dealer of some kind. Bugger! b

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130563844352 ... 500wt_1156