Viscount bicycles!!

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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quiksilver
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Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby quiksilver » 29 Mar 2011, 7:38am

The main motivation for my bike riding as an adult was because of the great cycling memories I had from childhood, that first freedom you feel from owning and riding a bike.

busaste
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Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby busaste » 29 Mar 2011, 8:39pm

DannytheLuddite wrote:My Aerosopace Sport has sealed bearings that are an interference fit in the bottom bracket shell. Does anyone know whether the shell can be threaded to take a modern sealed bearing cartridge?

Background: I managed to find a NOS 8speed chainset to replace the worn SR APEX chainset that was put on the bike many years ago, but found out too late that it is designed for a 110mm spindle. The original spindle is about 122mm, but I didn't realise until I'd removed the old chainset and tried to fit the new one.


If you look at page 9 on this thread you will see a post I did on Viscount's BB. There are plenty of options!

Some extra information to consider:

a) Klein made a BB spindle that is I think 116mm long. It has no grooves for circlips but don't worry you fix it in place by Loctite (same for the Phil Wood spindle but these are rarer than hen's teeth). This Klein spindle would be perfect for modern offset cranks.

b) BUT there is a caveat to a) above (you mean you thought it was going to be easy?). Viscount Aerospace frames have an unusual chainline. Let me explain. Look carefully at the OEM BB spindle; there is more metal beyond the circlip on the RH side than the LH side. This makes the RH pedal sit further away from the frame's seat tube than the LH pedal. I've measured all my Viscount Aerospace bikes (that's the ones with fillet brazed frames) and my stash of OEM BB spindles (for sealed bearings)and found this to be the case. Without exception the RH pedal sticks out between 3 - 6mm more than the one on the left. Further investigation has revealed why. The rear hub is set up on its axle to sit close to the inner face of the RH drop out. This is good in a way because you do not need too much dishing on the freewheel side of the wheel. That gives a stronger wheel and less strain on the hub. To get a good chainline with a back wheel set up like this, the cranks/chainrings have to stick out further on the RH side than would normally be the case. Curiously though, Viscount did not produce an equivalent amount of beyond circlip length on the LH side to balance things out. I've no idea why. It worries me a bit. Would asymmetrical pedal spacing be damaging to the body? Does it matter if you right foot sits further out in relation to the bodies centre line than the left? ALL my Aerospace models are set up like this. It is the way the factory did it. If you ride a VA model with a fillet brazed frame there is no escaping this. If you put a more conventional back wheel in the frame it really does pull the freewheel a good way over to the left. This is only a problem though if you use the Aerospace BB spindle. My friendly LBS (Hewitt Cycles - top place) worked out the correct distance between the centre of the seat tube and the centre of the space between the two chainrings. It should be 41.5mm to give a perfect chainline WITH A OEM Viscount back wheel. On one of my Aerospace Pros the actual distance is 47.5mm and that is with an OEM BB spindle/cranks/chainrings. Strewth, 6mm out! No wonder it eats chains and my right knee feels a bit iffy...

So, there you go. A few more things to think about!!

busaste
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Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby busaste » 29 Mar 2011, 8:48pm

quiksilver wrote:The main motivation for my bike riding as an adult was because of the great cycling memories I had from childhood, that first freedom you feel from owning and riding a bike.


Me too! My first bike was a Viscount (of course) and I've been reminiscing ever since!!

Bendo
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Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby Bendo » 29 Mar 2011, 9:17pm

oldnick wrote:
quiksilver wrote:I would keep it.

Thank you all for the replies. The knowledge here is fantastic.
I think I will take your advice. I will buy a pair of new tyres for it, clean and oil the chain and chain wheels and try to use it for a couple of evening pleasure rides a week. I haven't ridden it for twenty+ years but still remember enjoying the very few rides I had. Reminded me of when I was a school kid and also what it must be like to have a heart attack. The first ride, I got half way up a hill, stopped by a farm gate and hung over it trying to get enough air in to my lungs. By the third ride, I could get all the way up that hill without a problem. Trouble was on the return, some idiot car driver nearly knocked me off and I never rode it again. Let's hope I have better luck this time. Thanks again for the help.


One of the best posts in this thread! Make sure you come back with your impressions of your 'first' ride on your resurrected GP.

b

DannytheLuddite
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Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby DannytheLuddite » 29 Mar 2011, 10:31pm

Hi busaste

Thanks for once more coming up with a detailed and helpful answer. After reading it, I went back and measured the BB spindle and, sure enough, the RH side projects 28.5mm but the LH side projects only 25.5mm. Maybe that is why I also have an iffy right knee...

So I am now thinking that if possible I ought to leave the existing BB alone - there is after all nothing wrong with it. My quest was for an 7/8 speed double chainset that (a) fits on a square taper spindle and (b) has a small chainring with no more than 40 teeth and (c) doesn't look completely out of place on a 1970s bike. The one I bought, a Shimano Sora 3300, met those criteria but is hopelessly out of line on a 122mm spindle. It has to be a 7 or 8 speed chainset because I'm now running a 7-speed freewheel and matching chain, and on two or three occasions the chain has dropped between the two chainrings and jammed there - not good. Plus the chainrings are worn, and generally don't go very well with a new narrow chain. Perhaps I'll just keep watching on eBay and see if anything better comes up.

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quiksilver
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Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby quiksilver » 30 Mar 2011, 4:17am

Thats interesting info on the BB spindle Busaste. I am sure my Sebring one is longer on the RHS too. I had to retain the original as there are some problems with clearances within the BB shell which stop me from using a replacement cartridge BB. Because of this I over compensate on maintenace of the BB and service it more often, next time I do I will measure its lengths. I am curious to see if the spindle and BB shell are the same on my newly purchased Sebring too?

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quiksilver
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Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby quiksilver » 30 Mar 2011, 8:39am

I pulled out the BB assembly this morning, came suprisingly easily really compared to some. The spindle is longer on the RHS on this Sebring too and the BB shell is constructed in the same way as regards to how far the down tube penetrates it. I have some pics but they are too large to post at the moment. The clean up continues.........

busaste
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Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby busaste » 30 Mar 2011, 6:32pm

DannytheLuddite wrote:Hi busaste

Thanks for once more coming up with a detailed and helpful answer. After reading it, I went back and measured the BB spindle and, sure enough, the RH side projects 28.5mm but the LH side projects only 25.5mm. Maybe that is why I also have an iffy right knee...

So I am now thinking that if possible I ought to leave the existing BB alone - there is after all nothing wrong with it. My quest was for an 7/8 speed double chainset that (a) fits on a square taper spindle and (b) has a small chainring with no more than 40 teeth and (c) doesn't look completely out of place on a 1970s bike. The one I bought, a Shimano Sora 3300, met those criteria but is hopelessly out of line on a 122mm spindle. It has to be a 7 or 8 speed chainset because I'm now running a 7-speed freewheel and matching chain, and on two or three occasions the chain has dropped between the two chainrings and jammed there - not good. Plus the chainrings are worn, and generally don't go very well with a new narrow chain. Perhaps I'll just keep watching on eBay and see if anything better comes up.


keep an eye out for an early 116mm long Klein BB spindle. That would be there or there abouts for 7 - 8 speed and modern offset cranks. Fortunately for us Klein copied the Lambert/Viscount sealed bearing BB (but have never acknowledged it as far as I can tell). The Klein spindle is a very well made rugged piece of kit. It has no circlip grooves instead relying on Loctite to hold it all in place. Keep looking on eBay as they do turn up. I have a 122mm long Klein spindle. Don't go there though. It is just too long and messes up the chainline. Believe me I tried...
Here is a Klein BB.
Klein Rascal 'Gator fade' 90's.JPG

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quiksilver
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Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby quiksilver » 1 Apr 2011, 7:49am

I re-greased and fitted new bearings into the BB this morning. I went for a NOS crank and arms that I already had in my parts bin, as the old ones were pretty much past it. My first experience with cotter pins, installing them anyway, not too traumatic but I think I prefer modern fastening methods, they are not quite so brutal. All looks ok, I think? :( Time will tell, onwards and upwards.........

Bendo
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Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby Bendo » 1 Apr 2011, 11:33am

Still waiting for my Aerospace Sport frame to come back from the paint shop. Because it's BB was threaded years ago (the result of a pre-internet era overhaul when the likelihood of finding any OEM parts was less than zero), I'm going to try to install a first gen Dura Ace BB set. The crankset will also be Dura Ace* so at least I know the BB and cranks will mesh... if nothing else. Fingers crossed for a good chainline.

Picked up a NOS Viscount spindle on eBay last night. That will be a spare for the Aerospace Victor which is still 90% original. BTW anyone have a pair of "spare" Viscount BB bearings that they want to part with?

b

* pic here. http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx? ... 5&AbsPos=1
Click on the set with the silver chainrings - they are the actual ones what'll go on me bike. :D

oldnick
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Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby oldnick » 2 Apr 2011, 12:04pm

I'm thinking of buying these tyres to put on it. I'm unsure if they will fit on my rims, the size is right (27" x 1 1/4" rims). Are they OK for the job or do I need a different type? I don't want to spend a fortune but I don't want cheap, poor quality either. I will only be riding for pleasure and in nice weather if it makes a difference. I also thought about a pair of those flashing LED lights, they seem pretty noticeable when I see them on bikes whilst I'm driving. Would you recommend them or something else?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Continental-Ultra ... 25628a49f0

Bendo
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Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby Bendo » 3 Apr 2011, 8:27am

The Conti's have a good reputation. 27 x 1 &1/4" is about as fat as a Viscount frame will fit in my experience - the chain stays are typically very close together.

However I find 27 x 1 & 1/8" to be the optimum: narrow enough to clear the chainstays with ease and roll quickly, but wide enough to give some grip for general commuting. The only decent quality tyre made in this size is the Pasela Tourguard, made by Panasonic. You can get them online at JensonUSA for a pretty reasonable price. 27 x 1" looks great but is a little unstable for battling traffic and rough edges I reckon.

And LEDs are probably the best invention for nighttime bike safety since the rechargeable battery. b

Bendo
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Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby Bendo » 7 Apr 2011, 8:05am

busaste wrote: keep an eye out for an early 116mm long Klein BB spindle. That would be there or there abouts for 7 - 8 speed and modern offset cranks. Fortunately for us Klein copied the Lambert/Viscount sealed bearing BB (but have never acknowledged it as far as I can tell). The Klein spindle is a very well made rugged piece of kit. It has no circlip grooves instead relying on Loctite to hold it all in place. Keep looking on eBay as they do turn up. I have a 122mm long Klein spindle. Don't go there though. It is just too long and messes up the chainline. Believe me I tried...


Hey Busaste, just had a look at my two spindles and there's hope for the Dura Ace, as it is asymmetrical but it is only 113mm :shock: I hope the cranks will clear the right hand chain stay...

OTOH the OEM Viscount spindle is 126mm! According to your post above that seems a bit long. I'll attach a pic below for you to see if it looks to you like a true Viscount spindle. It cerainly has circlips and is asymmetrical. b
Attachments
Viscount 126mm spindle.jpg

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quiksilver
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Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby quiksilver » 7 Apr 2011, 7:46pm

My first proper commute home tonight after work after an appauling winter and various tyre issues. Was fantastic to be back on the Viscount again, and sunny and hot to boot.

busaste
Posts: 364
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Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby busaste » 8 Apr 2011, 8:18am

Bendo wrote:
busaste wrote: keep an eye out for an early 116mm long Klein BB spindle. That would be there or there abouts for 7 - 8 speed and modern offset cranks. Fortunately for us Klein copied the Lambert/Viscount sealed bearing BB (but have never acknowledged it as far as I can tell). The Klein spindle is a very well made rugged piece of kit. It has no circlip grooves instead relying on Loctite to hold it all in place. Keep looking on eBay as they do turn up. I have a 122mm long Klein spindle. Don't go there though. It is just too long and messes up the chainline. Believe me I tried...


Hey Busaste, just had a look at my two spindles and there's hope for the Dura Ace, as it is asymmetrical but it is only 113mm :shock: I hope the cranks will clear the right hand chain stay...

OTOH the OEM Viscount spindle is 126mm! According to your post above that seems a bit long. I'll attach a pic below for you to see if it looks to you like a true Viscount spindle. It cerainly has circlips and is asymmetrical. b


That's a Viscount BB spindle alright. The length variation is a common feature of Viscount's BB spindle. Some were made in house whereas others were sourced from external suppliers. Viscount had problems with their BB spindles - wrong lengths, variable tapers, circlip grooves in the wrong place, etc.

126mm may be a bit on the long side but it is still worth a try. Your spindle has a JIS taper and two circlip grooves which shows it is one of the later Aerospace ones intended for use with SR/Sugino cranks. It does not work well with a Viscount/Lambert crank as the tapers are different (in fact the Viscount crank taper seems to be unique to that company!!!).

Before you put the spindle in give it a BIG polish. The shinier the better!! This helps it to slide in easier. Put some copper grease on too to stop it siezing in place (sorry if you already know this).


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