Viscount bicycles!!

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
busaste
Posts: 365
Joined: 1 Mar 2008, 10:18pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby busaste » 5 Apr 2012, 7:54pm

Gizmodo wrote:Goldie on the Retrobike forum pointed me in this direction. My brother has a Fred Williams bike that he bought when he was 16 (he's now 50) so we are talking about 1977 give or take a year. Neither of us are into retro bikes and it needs a bit of work to be resplendent again and we are trying to figure out how much it might be worth. Apart from the tires and saddle, everything else is original. Fred Williams is a local bike shop that still exists today in Wolverhampton, Goldie thinks the frame looks like a Viscount and suggested this thread to confirm it.

Image

More pictures here.http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/pict3229.jpg/

Any opinion on how much it might be worth in its current sad but ridable condition?


Are you sure it is all original? The Shimano 600 chainset is post 77. It is unlikely that the rear derailleur is original as it is a cheap Huret jobbie. What baffles me is the Lambert/Viscount alloy fork. What is that all about? The brakes and headset look like Lamberts too. An intriguing bike.

As to value, that's a tough call. With a bit of luck it should go for £100 on ebay. That's the reserve I would set.

Goldie
Posts: 77
Joined: 16 Jun 2010, 9:03pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby Goldie » 6 Apr 2012, 9:11am

I thought maybe the frame might have been sold to trade in the early seventies, but not built up until the late seventes - the frame, seatpost and forks (and maybe the brakes?) all look straight down the line Lambert. But the drivetrain, wheels and stem / GB bars all look late seventies. It's a really fascinating bike...

Bendo
Posts: 292
Joined: 3 Nov 2010, 10:10am

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby Bendo » 8 Apr 2012, 2:53pm

Is the rear derailleur on Gizmodo's "Lambert" supposed to be at that angle? Doesn't look like it's providing very much chain wrap around the rear cogs. Looks like you'd get a bit of skipping on the smaller cogs under load. b

PS - after a few months of nothing much it's great to see a flurry of interesting posts on this thread!

PPS - Off topic but just got home from the UCI Track World Champs final night. The whole meet has seen the Brits and the Aussies fight it out. Amazing how strong British track cycling is these days! Anna Meares salvaged some pride for herself and the Aussies when she smashed the 500m individual TT. Sir Chris Hoy showed utter class in the Keirin final to go from fourth to first on the line with an amazing thrust of the handlebars. And the 50km Madison was an exciting, ungodly mess... as usual. Won by the Belgians. Breathtaking stuff.

busaste
Posts: 365
Joined: 1 Mar 2008, 10:18pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby busaste » 8 Apr 2012, 7:24pm

Bendo wrote:Is the rear derailleur on Gizmodo's "Lambert" supposed to be at that angle? Doesn't look like it's providing very much chain wrap around the rear cogs. Looks like you'd get a bit of skipping on the smaller cogs under load. b

PS - after a few months of nothing much it's great to see a flurry of interesting posts on this thread!

PPS - Off topic but just got home from the UCI Track World Champs final night. The whole meet has seen the Brits and the Aussies fight it out. Amazing how strong British track cycling is these days! Anna Meares salvaged some pride for herself and the Aussies when she smashed the 500m individual TT. Sir Chris Hoy showed utter class in the Keirin final to go from fourth to first on the line with an amazing thrust of the handlebars. And the 50km Madison was an exciting, ungodly mess... as usual. Won by the Belgians. Breathtaking stuff.


Welcome back!

The rear derailleur hanger is in the wrong place. The slot in it should be aligned with the drop out. I used to have one of those Huret rear derailleurs. It was a cheap, useless bit of cr*p! Moving to Shimano 600 was a revelation - and it looked good too.

Wow, lucky you at the UCI championships! I was fortunate last year to see Victoria Pendleton in the flesh (so to speak). Hoooeee, what a great advert for cycling (errr, that's quite enough of that thank you).

busaste
Posts: 365
Joined: 1 Mar 2008, 10:18pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby busaste » 8 Apr 2012, 7:26pm

Goldie wrote:I thought maybe the frame might have been sold to trade in the early seventies, but not built up until the late seventes - the frame, seatpost and forks (and maybe the brakes?) all look straight down the line Lambert. But the drivetrain, wheels and stem / GB bars all look late seventies. It's a really fascinating bike...


I am onto it. I thought I was getting somewhere with my Viscount/Lambert research and then this bike pops up. Will report back if I get anywhere.

busaste
Posts: 365
Joined: 1 Mar 2008, 10:18pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby busaste » 8 Apr 2012, 7:42pm

Bendo wrote:I was wondering (and I did trawl back through the thread to find it but couldn't) whether anyone knew what wall-thickness Aerospace tubing is/was? I know that it is straight-gauge chromoly, but how thick is it really? I've heard that 0.4mm is as thin as can be drawn down to make seamless tubing. Somewhere else I thought I heard that Aerospace tubing was 0.33mm thick. Can't find that reference now though. That's mighty thin tubing, but is not out of the question I suppose.

Brains trust? Anyone?

b


Aerospace tubing or 'Phoenix 1027' to use its product name, was 0.7mm thick. That's thinner than Reynolds 531 yet it had essentially the same tensile and yield strength (assuming every one was telling the truth!). Incredible. If ever there was a cycling product that deserves to be in some kind of 'hall of fame,' Phoenix 1027 is IT. I hope enough people see this post so that the tubing FINALLY gets some long overdue recognition.

Bendo
Posts: 292
Joined: 3 Nov 2010, 10:10am

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby Bendo » 9 Apr 2012, 1:00am

Thanks for that info B! b

Goldie
Posts: 77
Joined: 16 Jun 2010, 9:03pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby Goldie » 10 Apr 2012, 11:08pm

I rode the Pendle Witches Vintage Velo on Sunday on the Viscount, and it was an absolute beauty of a ride including some climbs dredged up from the depths of hell, hair raising but exhilarating full pelt foggy descents and free pie and peas in a lovely pub to finish. The Viscount looked after me brilliantly, although the tyres are covered in black gunk which I think might be the pulverised remains of my brake blocks. I'd recommend it to anyone looking to stretch their legs on a longer ride.

It's a bit teeny, but that's me in the blue top getting involved in a frankly unwise overtake on the Nick O'Pendle - I'd just got back on after literally not being able to turn the cranks on the middle bit of the climb :oops: http://cyclesportphotos.com/_photo_9361 ... id=9361068

Bendo
Posts: 292
Joined: 3 Nov 2010, 10:10am

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby Bendo » 12 Apr 2012, 3:57pm

Whoah, some of those bikes look like they date back to early this century... :/
Pity couldn't get a bigger shot of you on your steed Goldie. The fog makes it look well cold! Onya mate. b

Goldie
Posts: 77
Joined: 16 Jun 2010, 9:03pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby Goldie » 17 Apr 2012, 6:55pm

Does anyone have a spare pair of Lambert of Viscount high flange 36 hole hubs that I could part you from? I got carried away with the idea of building a set of wheels to take tubs for my Aerospace the other night - I've got some rims but a busy afternoon at work meant an e-bay fail with the hubs I had my eye on. :cry:

Spudh
Posts: 42
Joined: 11 Aug 2011, 10:42pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby Spudh » 17 Apr 2012, 10:08pm

There is a lovely looking Aerospace Pro in the for sale section. £175 + postage from Holland.

wyadvd
Posts: 272
Joined: 2 Jun 2010, 10:43pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby wyadvd » 19 Apr 2012, 12:03pm

busaste wrote:
wyadvd wrote:Just aquired a fixie from a LBS who was using it as an advert fro their shop in town.

any experts out there? Its a Viscount frame I think circa around 1978, with a sturmer archer dropout(facing forwards kinda) a nice flip flop on a rigida french wheel. TA straight cranks (only one banana for a Q).

My problem is no amount of googling will nail the frame date and model. I think it says Viscount President, but a bit worn. Anyone an expert on Viscount frames?

And I love riding it. everyone should try riding a fixie at least once. need to perfect my skid and track stand but itll come!

15 miles each way commuter (soon to be 20)

Posts: 366
Location: Kent

photo album taken this morning , Im off to work on it now!:

https://picasaweb.google.com/wyadvd/Jul ... directlink


http://www.endomondo.com/profile/756236



The frame is off a Viscount 'President'. This model was out in 1978.

The President had a sit up and beg riding position, 3 speed SA hub gears, sprung saddle, flat bars, steel hubs/rims, Weinmann side pull brakes, steel cottered chainset, a large plastic saddlebag, full mudguards and a dynamo lighting set. It was a kind of commuter come weekend tourer bike.

The frames were made in Taiwan from what is affectionately known as 'gas pipe' tubing. Don't let that put you off though because the frames area very strong if a bit on the heavy side. In the 1970's Taiwanese frame building was relatively new but as we all know know, they got it right and have since all but taken over. Viscount just helped them along!

Have only just caught up with your very informative reply !
As you might have guessed this frame has no original parts, and for your information , weighs in at nine kilos!
One problem now....bottom bracket shell threads look shot . Is there any way of re tapping so I can put in a modern external bb or even the thread less ones mentioned at the end of the wiki article on bbs?
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/ ... ckets.html

I can't remember if any of the pictures in my op include the bb. They certainly show the ta chain set.
Any thoughts?

busaste
Posts: 365
Joined: 1 Mar 2008, 10:18pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby busaste » 21 Apr 2012, 12:37pm

wyadvd wrote:
busaste wrote:
wyadvd wrote:Just aquired a fixie from a LBS who was using it as an advert fro their shop in town.

any experts out there? Its a Viscount frame I think circa around 1978, with a sturmer archer dropout(facing forwards kinda) a nice flip flop on a rigida french wheel. TA straight cranks (only one banana for a Q).

My problem is no amount of googling will nail the frame date and model. I think it says Viscount President, but a bit worn. Anyone an expert on Viscount frames?

And I love riding it. everyone should try riding a fixie at least once. need to perfect my skid and track stand but itll come!

15 miles each way commuter (soon to be 20)

Posts: 366
Location: Kent

photo album taken this morning , Im off to work on it now!:

https://picasaweb.google.com/wyadvd/Jul ... directlink


http://www.endomondo.com/profile/756236



The frame is off a Viscount 'President'. This model was out in 1978.

The President had a sit up and beg riding position, 3 speed SA hub gears, sprung saddle, flat bars, steel hubs/rims, Weinmann side pull brakes, steel cottered chainset, a large plastic saddlebag, full mudguards and a dynamo lighting set. It was a kind of commuter come weekend tourer bike.

The frames were made in Taiwan from what is affectionately known as 'gas pipe' tubing. Don't let that put you off though because the frames area very strong if a bit on the heavy side. In the 1970's Taiwanese frame building was relatively new but as we all know know, they got it right and have since all but taken over. Viscount just helped them along!

Have only just caught up with your very informative reply !
As you might have guessed this frame has no original parts, and for your information , weighs in at nine kilos!
One problem now....bottom bracket shell threads look shot . Is there any way of re tapping so I can put in a modern external bb or even the thread less ones mentioned at the end of the wiki article on bbs?
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/ ... ckets.html

I can't remember if any of the pictures in my op include the bb. They certainly show the ta chain set.
Any thoughts?


I would go for the velo orange, YST (much cheaper) or Mavic BB unit. The velo orange BB is especially useful as you do not need to chamfer the outer faces of the BB shell which you are supposed to do with the others. Facing the BB shell is easy if you have the correct facing tool which many bicycle shops do not have.

You may be able to get the threads in the BB shell cleaned up or tapped out for an Italian thread. This requires a bit of skill. It is worth exploring this option with your LBS before going the stripped BB thread velo orange route (NOTE - if your LBS mechanics are young lads do not entrust them with this work - this is a job for the mythical 50 something 'Sid' type mechanic who has a good engineering background). Sometimes threads can be saved - I managed to clean up the threads on an Aerospace Viscount BB spindle simply by retapping it with the correct 5/16th tap :D .

TheRooKnows
Posts: 4
Joined: 13 May 2012, 6:52pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby TheRooKnows » 14 May 2012, 3:40pm

Hello Everyone.

I'm a new poster, but have read quite a few of the posts here on the site. Great forum for Viscount info and questions. I bought my grey and black Viscount about a year and half ago from a local used bike store in Chicago. At the time, I was just looking for a bike that fit my frame. They pulled an old Viscount from the rack of forty other old road bikes and said it was a 57cm and my size. I took it home and rode it straight away. Several months into my daily bike commutes in Chicago, one of the seat bolts holding my Middlemore saddle to the post snapped and sent my leg through the frame: partially torn MCL and a compressed meniscus resulted and firmly attached me to the bike.

I replaced the seat post at that point because I didn't see the value in tapping out the broken bolt. Last month, crossing an intersection, my spindle snapped. When I looked closely at it after the event, I noticed that it was cracked prior to the failure about 1/3 of the way through. Rust was present in the crack, letting me know I didn't massively break the steel in one go, but that it fatigued over time. I was silently reading all I could at that point and decided to order a Velo Orange Threadless Bottom Bracket. I removed the offending tubes in the bottom bracket shell with a drill press and grinding stone.

When I installed the Velo Orange part, I couldn't get it where it needed to be. It was just too small. I see that jdwertz was able to shim the bracket in place, but after my two failures on this bike, I didn't want to risk another by bad problem solving. I'm now ordering replacement 6003 bearings and a Phil Wood Stainless spindle with JIS tapers.

What I'm wondering is what exactly is the installation procedure for the press in bearings and spindle? It was easy enough to remove through brute banging, but I'm imagining much more finesse is needed in the installation.

Anyone out there have a recommendation on installation steps? Do I place the bearings then insert the spindle? Or should I place the spindle in one of the bearings, place that, and then install the other bearing over the spindle and into the BB?

Any help here would be greatly appreciated. I love this bike and am anxious to get back on the streets of Chicago.
Image Attachments
Viscount Details-0837-2.jpg
The whole bike, no wheels
Viscount Details-0836-2.jpg
Crane Derailuer and Drop Out
Viscount Details-0835-2.jpg
Velo Orange Prep, not needed
Viscount Details-0834-2.jpg
Serial Number. Anyone got info on this one?

busaste
Posts: 365
Joined: 1 Mar 2008, 10:18pm

Re: Viscount bicycles!!

Postby busaste » 14 May 2012, 10:03pm

TheRooKnows wrote:Hello Everyone.

I'm a new poster, but have read quite a few of the posts here on the site. Great forum for Viscount info and questions. I bought my grey and black Viscount about a year and half ago from a local used bike store in Chicago. At the time, I was just looking for a bike that fit my frame. They pulled an old Viscount from the rack of forty other old road bikes and said it was a 57cm and my size. I took it home and rode it straight away. Several months into my daily bike commutes in Chicago, one of the seat bolts holding my Middlemore saddle to the post snapped and sent my leg through the frame: partially torn MCL and a compressed meniscus resulted and firmly attached me to the bike.

I replaced the seat post at that point because I didn't see the value in tapping out the broken bolt. Last month, crossing an intersection, my spindle snapped. When I looked closely at it after the event, I noticed that it was cracked prior to the failure about 1/3 of the way through. Rust was present in the crack, letting me know I didn't massively break the steel in one go, but that it fatigued over time. I was silently reading all I could at that point and decided to order a Velo Orange Threadless Bottom Bracket. I removed the offending tubes in the bottom bracket shell with a drill press and grinding stone.

When I installed the Velo Orange part, I couldn't get it where it needed to be. It was just too small. I see that jdwertz was able to shim the bracket in place, but after my two failures on this bike, I didn't want to risk another by bad problem solving. I'm now ordering replacement 6003 bearings and a Phil Wood Stainless spindle with JIS tapers.

What I'm wondering is what exactly is the installation procedure for the press in bearings and spindle? It was easy enough to remove through brute banging, but I'm imagining much more finesse is needed in the installation.

Anyone out there have a recommendation on installation steps? Do I place the bearings then insert the spindle? Or should I place the spindle in one of the bearings, place that, and then install the other bearing over the spindle and into the BB?

Any help here would be greatly appreciated. I love this bike and am anxious to get back on the streets of Chicago.


Hi

Welcome to the thread!!! A very nice Aerospace Pro you have there. Lovely.

Sorry to hear about your component failures. These problems are not unique to Viscounts. It is all part of the joy of riding older bikes!

Replacing the BB spindle is best done with a puller. But, I don't have one and I suspect you don't too. So with this in mind I recommend you install it this way.

1. The night befor you tackle the job, put one of the bearings in the left side of the frame. Use Loctite or similar to help keep it in the frame. I use a steel tube (a socket will also do) of the same diameter as the outer bearing race to gently and evenly tap the bearing in.

2. Give the spindle a really good polish so it is nice and shiny.

3. Take the other bearing and put some Loctite or similar on the face of the inner race. Tap the the spindle, which has been in the freezer for a few hours, through the bearing. Make sure you tap on a crank bolt threaded into the spindle so as not to peen over the end.

4. Put the frame left side down on a vice (I rest it on a block of wood with a spindle sized hole drilled through) so that the bottom bracket bearing cannot be tapped out as the spindle is driven through from the right hand side. As per the other side, smear some Loctite or similar on the inner race face of the left hand bearing. Tap through the spindle from the right hand side making sure it is correctly spaced within the bottom bracket. Make sure you tap on the crank bolt rather than the spindle end. If necessary you may need to tap the right hand bearing with a steel tube or socket to help seat it in the shell. The bearings on both sides should be ever so slightly recessed into the bottom bracket shell when you have finished. PLEASE NOTE: if you are using a Viscount rear hub make sure the right hand side of the spindle is 3-4mm further out than the other side. This maintains the chainline. I am saying this on the basis that you are using a 121 - 123mm spindle same as the original. If not, a bit of fiddling is required to account for you alternative wheel's dish and crank offset. Also the original Viscount cranks do not have a JIS taper (booo!) so think twice before you work at getting one of these on as it might deform the spindle tapers (I did that th a Shimano 600 BB).

5. Check that the left side bearing has not moved slightly as you have been tapping the spindle though. Tap back in if necessay (making sure you have moved the wooden block to the other side!).

6. Turn the spindle. Feel smooth? If it feels a bit tight (usualy the case with Viscount's own rough spindle machining!!!) give both ends of the spindle a gentle tap (or two). This helps to 'seat' the bearings.

The Phil Wood spindle is a great product. For a start it is round and true which means not a great deal of force is needed to drive it though the bearings.

Hope all this helps. Sorry if it is overly detailed and tells you stuff you already know.