Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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frank9755
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Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby frank9755 » 24 Oct 2009, 2:01pm

I'm looking forward to Monday and cycling to work in full daylight once again.

I've been coming home in the dark for a few weeks already so the extra hour in the evening won't make it any darker, but the light morning is a real bonus as I've had a few quite dark ones of late.

Judging by the media, it's just me and a couple of dozen hill farmers in Scotland who like it the way it is. Does anyone else here prefer the clocks to go back?

TheBrick
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby TheBrick » 24 Oct 2009, 2:16pm

No, I end up riding to work in the dark anyway in a week or two, but at least if the clocks stayed on BST the day light hours of my day off would be more usefully placed. I rather be able to lie in an hour on a weekend and have an hour extra in the day than have to get up early on a w/e to maximaise the wintertime day time hour.

thirdcrank
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby thirdcrank » 24 Oct 2009, 2:23pm

I think it's a bit unfair to dismiss the concerns of people living in Scotland, especially the more nothern parts and the islands beyond. OTOH, with a separate Scottish Parliament, this is just the sort of issue that is best settled on a devolved basis. I'd say, stick to BST all year round in England (it was called British Standard Time when they did it as an experiment) rather than just plump for another hour in front all the year round. It's the faff of putting all the clocks etc back an our, just to move them forward again what seems like five minutes later (even though it is six months.)

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anniesboy
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby anniesboy » 24 Oct 2009, 5:28pm

Have a look at RoSPAs paper on the matter ,and make your mind up.
http://tinyurl.com/yfpo24h

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Cunobelin
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby Cunobelin » 24 Oct 2009, 5:33pm

To me this is dangerous to say the least.

I commute along a fairly busy road and for about three weeks the sun is low and blinding, which can make visibility difficult, as evidenced by close overtakes and the suddne swerve out as they realise you are there.The good news is that after last week the sun has now risen so that this no longer happens.

Bad news is that the clocks are now going back and I can welcome another few weeks of dangerous sunlight impaired visibility on my commute

Tandem Man
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby Tandem Man » 24 Oct 2009, 7:51pm

Why in this country do we drag the same old arguements up every year at the same time and then promptly forget about them for another eleven and a half months without doing anything.

Fireworks leading up to Bonfire night is another case in point.In a day or two there will be the commencement of the nightly shelling of the neighnourhood with what sound like mortars.People will complain,one or two councillors/MPs will huff and puff then nothing until the same happens next year,ad infinitum.

Yes messing about with the clocks is ridiculous.If Scotland want their own time zone they are at liberty to change it.

I will take bets we are talking about the same subject next year,nothing will have changed.

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Kirst
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby Kirst » 24 Oct 2009, 7:55pm

frank9755 wrote:I

Judging by the media, it's just me and a couple of dozen hill farmers in Scotland who like it the way it is. Does anyone else here prefer the clocks to go back?

I think most people in Scotland recognise that life would be much more unpleasant through the winter if the clocks didn't go back. In the mornings, most people go out to school and work at the same time - thousands of people on the roads and the chance of accidents increases. In the afternoons most schoolkids are home long before the evening rush hour begins, so the coming home business is fewer people for longer. If the clocks stayed on BST, I'd go to work in the dark, come home in the dark and not see daylight from Sunday to Saturday.
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plowmar
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby plowmar » 24 Oct 2009, 8:07pm

There has always been this debate regarding adding and subtracting this 'rogue' hour. I have been led to understand that it was first actioned during or leading upto the first world war to enable the farmers and factory workers to work in day light hours.

Why didn't they, or do not they who need to just start an hour early or later as the season dictates?. Without any need for changing the clocks.

Business letter heads, in a one off cost, could reflect this. Schools etc. could be run in tandem with this, ( I knew I would get something re cycling in this if I kept going long enough).

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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby thirdcrank » 24 Oct 2009, 8:17pm

There is another thread running on this.

Apart from what anybody thinks about getting up in the morning, it is suggested that lives would be saved and less greenhouse gas created if we reverted to daylight saving as it was called during the war. (Before my time :oops: ) I think the people of Scotland should be allowed to decide this for themselves, but that should not affect what happens in England.

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paulah
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby paulah » 24 Oct 2009, 8:21pm

plowmar wrote:Why didn't they, or do not they who need to just start an hour early or later as the season dictates?. Without any need for changing the clocks.


That's what I can never understand. I spent a year as an english language assistant at a school in Germany and we started at about 7:45 and nowadays I work flextime and usually start just after 8am.

The sun's supposed to be at it's high point at noon, instead of changing that, get up earlier. How difficult can that be?
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rbrian
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby rbrian » 25 Oct 2009, 5:14pm

paulah wrote:
plowmar wrote:Why didn't they, or do not they who need to just start an hour early or later as the season dictates?. Without any need for changing the clocks.


That's what I can never understand. I spent a year as an english language assistant at a school in Germany and we started at about 7:45 and nowadays I work flextime and usually start just after 8am.

The sun's supposed to be at it's high point at noon, instead of changing that, get up earlier. How difficult can that be?


I completely agree. If the farmers want to get up an hour earlier, or later, that's up to them - just leave the rest of us alone. One of the ways of reducing rush hour congestion is to vary start and finish times, so not everybody is on the road at the same time.

Anyway, in this 24 hour, internet connected, smaller than ever world, is there really any justification for different time zones? Sidereal time makes more sense.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby thirdcrank » 25 Oct 2009, 5:30pm

I never bother changing the two clocks I have that nobody else refers to (the one in my mobile bikeshed AKA Citroën Berlingo and the other on my mobile phone) which are always on GMT. For the first few weeks after the clocks change, I just have to remember whether they are right or an hour slow :oops:

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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby yakdiver » 25 Oct 2009, 5:55pm

My mate can't see what's the fuss is all about, but there again he does work permanent nights :)
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MikewsMITH2
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby MikewsMITH2 » 25 Oct 2009, 7:02pm

we should be on the same time as the rest of Europe, when I worked in companies that did international business we lost 4 hours a day when we couldn't reach one another.
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iviehoff
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby iviehoff » 26 Oct 2009, 10:08am

MikewsMITH2 wrote:we should be on the same time as the rest of Europe.

Except that at 4pm (even 5pm) the Spanish are just getting back from lunch, whereas some Scandinavians who arrived at some ungodly hour in the morning and had lunch at 11.30, are now going home.

Somehow people in NW Spain survive being on central European time despite being some distance to the west of anywhere in Britain (Vigo is nearly 9 degrees West, cf Penzance 5.5 degrees West). Iceland keeps GMT year round despite Reykjavik being about 22 degrees West. Oslo is 10 degrees East, which is further west in its time zone than Glasgow (time zones are 15 degrees wide), and they have summer/winter time - its getting light well after breakfast in midwinter there; Bergen is considerably further west; similar issues apply to much of Denmark. What's more, they go to work earlier than us...

We can all point to our own personal benefits and disbenefits of these things, which often depend upon the exact time we go out the door. Like someone else above, I get about 6 weeks extra cycling to the station in the light as a result of winter time. If it was down to just me and sod everyone else I'd change the clock each weekend in winter, end wintertime at the end of Feb, and have double summer time for the core 4 months of summer. But I think it would be a shame if this was determined by specific interest groups and who shouts loudest, but rather on the balance of benefits.

Yes, in theory you can ignore the clock and keep to you your own timetable. Which is fine if you are retired and don't have to obey anyone else's timetable. 12pm is the "natural noon", but if you have ever been to the Falkland Islands where the farmers outside Stanley refuse to change their clocks, it seems ridiculous. (Port Stanley is at a southern latitude equivalent to about Paris.) There are also "refuse to change the clock" communities around the world, who think that changing the clock offends their religion.

Overall, if we look at the broad common interest, the road safety argument seems to be the strongest.