Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

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MLJ
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby MLJ » 26 Oct 2009, 10:11am

It seems to me that the argument is missed: the idea is for our time to be the same as in Europe; thereafter the clocks will change between winter and summer exactly as we already have! Personally, I like noon to be when the sun is at its zenith: if we want to have more afternoon daylight, why not just have 'office' hours from 8am to 4pm?

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speedsixdave
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby speedsixdave » 26 Oct 2009, 2:40pm

anniesboy wrote:Have a look at RoSPAs paper on the matter ,and make your mind up.
http://tinyurl.com/yfpo24h


For the busy amongst us, they conclude:

"RoSPA supports the adoption of Single/Double Summer Time.
The most recent research into the potential effect of SDST on road casualties concluded that significant reductions in casualties would be achieved if the UK adopted Single/Double Summer Time. (...)
The latest research estimated that a move to SDST would result in around 450 [6%] fewer road deaths and serious injuries, including between 104 and 138 fewer deaths.
A reduction would be achieved in Scotland as well, albeit slightly less than for Great Britain as a whole.
Although there would be more casualties in the morning during the Winter, these would be outweighed by the reduction in casualties due to an hour of extra daylight in the Winter evenings, producing a net reduction."
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thirdcrank
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby thirdcrank » 26 Oct 2009, 4:16pm

And if you add to that the benefits of 'daylight saving' (the wartime reason for faffing with the clocks in the first place) which is said to save a huge amount of energy, and so less greenhouse gas, the case is a strong one.

iviehoff
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby iviehoff » 26 Oct 2009, 4:50pm

thirdcrank wrote:And if you add to that the benefits of 'daylight saving' (the wartime reason for faffing with the clocks in the first place) which is said to save a huge amount of energy, and so less greenhouse gas, the case is a strong one.

Whilst it is inconvenient to my own position, I believe on making decisions on the full evidence. And whilst it is often "said to" save energy, there is precious little evidence for it. In fact there is some recent evidence to the contrary. Starting in autumn 2008, the USA recently extended summer time at both ends (ie autumn and spring), ostensibly to save money because of the current financial crisis. A perfect experiment: you can compare the same months with and without summer time. But in fact there was no energy saving in that first year of the change. If anything, energy consumption went up in those weeks where they changed the clock. Basically the problem is that the energy you save in the evening you lose in the morning, in fact more than lose.

So I think the energy saving bit is a red herring. The accident argument is a stronger argument, essentially saying that more people benefit from the lighter evening than who lose from the darker morning.

thirdcrank
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby thirdcrank » 26 Oct 2009, 5:04pm

I'll admit I've only based my post on bits and pieces I've read. I understand that so-called daylight saving, was introduced as a wartime measure because less artificial light used = less energy consumed. (Incidentally, I'm not suggesting that waging a world war is not energy intensive but it does concentrate the minds of the decisionmakers.) I'd be the first to agree that lifesaving and injury prevention are top priorities, but a lot of people are said to die in winter through being cold,in turn through the price of energy. In the evidence-based vein, I'd also have to admit that my implication that a reduction in greenhouse gases would be beneficial is only based on bits and pieces I've read.

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yakdiver
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby yakdiver » 26 Oct 2009, 5:18pm

17:13 PM and it's dark outside welcome to winter :(
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AndyK
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby AndyK » 26 Oct 2009, 5:27pm

I see the forum server is sticking defiantly to Summer Time... :D

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paulah
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby paulah » 26 Oct 2009, 8:07pm

AndyK wrote:I see the forum server is sticking defiantly to Summer Time... :D


Go to the user control panel and then board preferences and turn the summer time off.
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ferrit worrier
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby ferrit worrier » 26 Oct 2009, 8:46pm

paulah wrote:
AndyK wrote:I see the forum server is sticking defiantly to Summer Time... :D


Go to the user control panel and then board preferences and turn the summer time off.


Well you learn somthing new every day, Nice one Paulah Ta!
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Mick F
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby Mick F » 31 Oct 2009, 8:24am

I like the clocks changing. Long my the practise continue.

It's ok for the nanby pamby south-easterners with their early sunrises, but get north and west, and it takes much longer for the sun to poke through. It's not just a matter of sunrise time, the weather takes it's toll too. Having lived in Scotland when we had the experiment for keeping the clocks at Summer Time, I can vouch for the fact that it wasn't getting light until nearly 10am!

BST and GMT are great. Leave them alone.
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Gregf
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby Gregf » 12 Nov 2009, 10:36pm

Alex Fergason only has to put his clocks back 55 minutes!

kwackers
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby kwackers » 13 Nov 2009, 10:40am

I think the changes should be done incrementally each day (just as the sun does).

With modern electronic clocks we can arrange things so it always starts going dark at 9pm. That way it's always light when you come home from work. There's something horrible about being home in the evening when it's dark - you feel as though you may as well go to bed. In the summer though you always feel as though there's time to do stuff.

Vote for light evenings - Kwackamatic clocks that automatically keep it daylight in the evenings - you know it makes sense... :wink:

Tom Richardson
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby Tom Richardson » 13 Nov 2009, 11:00am

the monks at Reivaux used to divide the time between sunrise and sunset into 12 equal segments all year round, and the same between sunset and sunrise. A daytime hour would last about 45mins in the winter and an hour and a quarter in the summer (daytime hours were longer in the summer and shorter in the winter - literally). I think we should go back to that. It would be hard to get everything done in the winter but there would be a long rest afterwards.

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frank9755
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Re: Why everyone wants to stop us putting the clocks back?

Postby frank9755 » 13 Nov 2009, 12:33pm

kwackers wrote:I think the changes should be done incrementally each day (just as the sun does).

With modern electronic clocks we can arrange things so it always starts going dark at 9pm. That way it's always light when you come home from work. There's something horrible about being home in the evening when it's dark - you feel as though you may as well go to bed. In the summer though you always feel as though there's time to do stuff.

Vote for light evenings - Kwackamatic clocks that automatically keep it daylight in the evenings - you know it makes sense... :wink:


Interesting idea. While it has some attractions, I don't fancy changing all the non-electronic clocks every day, and having sunrise just after 1pm in London in December (and later in Scotland / Cornwall) feels a bit extreme!
Alternatively, how about adjusting things so that sunrise is always defined to be 7am and it gets dark when the daylight runs out...?