Bright rear lights

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
thirdcrank
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Re: Bright rear lights

Post by thirdcrank »

I think that's a yes and no, because the type of lights specified by reg 24 are pretty tightly defined by the regulations, and a car driver couldn't fit a couple of AA searchlights and say "These are my position lamps." Bike lamps are generally covered by the relevant British Standard. That was, of course, blown apart by the amendment of the regs to allow flashing, and as there is no BS for flashing, AFAIK, we are in the unsatisfactory position that while steady lamps have to comply, flashers don't. It doesn't even matter to say that home made rear lights (or exotic imports) meet the standard because the crucial point is that they have to have the lens stamped with the standard (or EU equivalent.)

I presume that leaves a loophole for OTT flashing lamps. In the end, it's like everything else, what is the likelihood that anything will be done about it? At the moment, this is probably quite rare. If things reached the point of enforcement because somebody was dazzled, IMO we'd be straight into inconsiderate cycling. The prosecution evidence would be just that - somebody was dazzled - possibly accompanied by some record of an explanation that to ensure that idiot drivers could see you, this level of lighting was necessary. It's not part of a criminal court's job to conduct experiments but let's imagine our badly-treated cyclist brought his lights with him to show the bench. Draw the curtains and off go the lights, and hey presto! Flash, flash, flash. :shock: If we reached the point where this level of lighting became the norm, I don't think it would be long before we were reading reports of crackdowns. And for what? Except in thick fog, the typical LED rear lamp of the Cateye type, properly fitted, is clearly visible at a considerable distance.

We complain about red tape and bureaucracy - in my submission to the consultation over flashing bike lamps I poured scorn on it. Perhaps this gives themenfromtheministry some confirmation that they were right.

===================================================================
As a working example, my night riding bike dates from 1980 so the only requirement for the front lamp is that it should be visible from a reasonable distance and the BS does not apply. I use Cateye Daylights, with gel cell batteries. I usually use 6 watt bulbs, but I have some 10W. These have a truly powerful beam, and no provision for dipping, other than moving the lamp. I cannot imagine anybody believes I am legally entitled to shine these in the face of approaching drivers. :? Although, come to think of it, nothing woul;d surprise me. :roll:
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gentlegreen
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Re: Bright rear lights

Post by gentlegreen »

Phil_Lee wrote:I do think we are getting to the point where rear lighting is (or can be) powerful enough that it should probably be switchable while riding.

It's my contention that unless you build them yourself, it is simply not possible to have suitable lighting for all the different conditions one encounters on an average journey - in the sense that judging by the behaviour of the idiots on the Bristol to Bath path with blindingly bright flashing lights who are too lazy even to push a button to dim or kill the flasher, or angle then down to a useful angle, none of them would be prepared to dismount to switch in a different rear light mode.

I have a rear light that gives me some confidence in fog on unlit roads, so I naturally have an alternative rear light for other situations.
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Bright rear lights

Post by Cyril Haearn »

nez dans le g
uidon wrote:
I live on a hill in Britain's oldest town. There are several junctions with poor sight lines, a pillar box placed so a car driver can't see properly out of one junction without half-emerging, pedestrians streaming down the footpath on the hill in the evening. In the dark it's tricky to get the 'view' from a side road. As vehicles leave the town they can accelerate above the thirty limit and often do. It's lethal. It's particularly exciting when people do it on a bicycle. Trouble is some ride with no lights on. Twice now I've nearly had a cyclist off a bike because they are doing 30 or so, riding in the gutter with dark clothes and no lights. I've never felt in danger of riding into the back of a bike because, as third crank says, they are in your headlights. So nice bright rear lamps by all means, but I would especially plead that people make sure they can be seen from the front!


Which oldest town is that? There are several claimants including Abingdon (no hills?) and Avebury (8 000 years)
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nez
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Re: Bright rear lights

Post by nez »

8000 years is the minimum half life of the glow in Abingdon's children if the Centre for Fusion Energy goes pear-shape. I've been to Avebury. It is no town and shows no signs of a visit from Boudicca
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freiston
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Re: Bright rear lights

Post by freiston »

Wow! Avebury is older than this thread!
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
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tykeboy2003
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Re: Bright rear lights

Post by tykeboy2003 »

David Robinson wrote:I would probably use them in flashing mode at least part of the day.


I never use any lights in flashing mode. There doesn't seem to be any compelling evidence that it makes you more visible and nothing says "cyclist" to a driver more than a flashing light. In my experience if a motorists sees you as a cyclist it immediately prompts the "must get past cyclist at all costs" mentality - leave them in a neutral state of mind as long as possible.

Why should we have flashing lights? Motorbikes, motorscooters and mopeds don't have them.
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mjr
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Re: Bright rear lights

Post by mjr »

tykeboy2003 wrote:Why should we have flashing lights? Motorbikes, motorscooters and mopeds don't have them.

Battery conservation or when pulling a trailer slowly. That's about the only justifications I've got. Other than that, I'd rather use a big steady light to leave doubt in their mind that I'm a bigger vehicle until they're close enough to see the pedal reflectors bobbing.
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tatanab
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Re: Bright rear lights

Post by tatanab »

mjr wrote:Battery conservation.
You might find that your "steady" lights are flashing for just this reason, but at a rate faster than your eye can tell. I do not know about modern lights, so it is just conjecture, but I know the original Vistalights did this.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Bright rear lights

Post by [XAP]Bob »

tykeboy2003 wrote:
David Robinson wrote:I would probably use them in flashing mode at least part of the day.


I never use any lights in flashing mode. There doesn't seem to be any compelling evidence that it makes you more visible and nothing says "cyclist" to a driver more than a flashing light. In my experience if a motorists sees you as a cyclist it immediately prompts the "must get past cyclist at all costs" mentality - leave them in a neutral state of mind as long as possible.

Why should we have flashing lights? Motorbikes, motorscooters and mopeds don't have them.


Because you can use a lower power light in flashing mode and the flashing triggers the motion detection in the brain. Said detection is remarkably sensitive.
I have a blinking light which I turn on in poor visibility, it complements my dynamo powered dual rear lights - it doesn't replace them.
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