...what type of pedals are best for dodgy knees?

[Brucey]

Definitely Time Atac, all the couriers used them fir all day comfort.

comfy, yes, but basically the same bearings as the Alium, so the same problems.

Overhaul detailed quite well here;

http://www.cyclistno1.co.uk/features/maintenance/time-atac-pedal-overhaul.htm

at least there are two seals to inhibit the ingress of crud.

If you want this style of pedal (with a small recessed cleat, a ton of float and side supports) then the Crank Bros Candy3 is worth a look. This has a roller bearing design; this is much less draggy than the older CB pedals, Times etc and lasts well if it is greased regularly. New bearings are cheap enough but if the pedal spindle is corroded fixing the pedals becomes a bit more spendy.

BTW the supposedly 'better' DMR V12 model pedals also have a bushing type bearing. The cheaper V8 models have a ball bearing, which with even minimal maintenance will cause less drag than the bushing type, even if it doesn't feel as smooth when you turn it by hand; the latter is not a good test for bearing drag under load.

cheers

[Mick F]

The Time Atac has only one bearing?
What's so good about that? It may be comfy, but why only one bearing?

My Campag pedals have three bearings BTW.

[MGate]

Crank Bros Candy 3's are good, but avoid Candy 1's - they have a plastic bushing and one bearing... not good.

If you want float and a recessed cleat then look for VP BeBop's - 20 degrees and the pedal is serviceable. 2 bearings in each pedal supporting the spindle. Service kit around £15.

[tatanab]

The Time Atac has only one bearing?

Depends how you define bearing. Yes there is an outboard cartridge bearing, but in addition to that the whole axle runs as a plain bearing. In very early Aliums (Ist generation pre 2022 probably)this was metal to metal and they would seize up if not maintained. Since then they have run in a type of plastic sleeve so this is not a problem. At some stage from about 2005 all ATAC pedals took to this method. However, the plastic sleeve wears which can allow the pedal to twist on the axle and in my case lead to an annoying click when I tried them in 2006. Since then I have changed all my pedals for the very best of the ATAC pedals which are high end first generation pedals with outboard and inboard cartridge bearings. I used to be able to buy NOS for £25 to £50 but they are becoming harder to find and people are discovering how good they are. Fortunately I have a very good stock indeed. I am talking about ones that look like these which are the very bottom end of that range with plastic bodies and carbon steel axles. I prefer ones a bit higher up the range (I am a poser). http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Time-atac-mb- ... 2c8ce3d5ca

For the OP I too have dodgy knees as a result of twisted legs due to be thumped with a motor car 45 years ago. I started on clipless in 1994. I tried Shimano SPD, I tried Look SPD type MTB pedals, then I tried Time ATAC in about 1999 and have stuck with them ever since.

[Brucey]

If you want float and a recessed cleat then look for VP BeBop's - 20 degrees and the pedal is serviceable. 2 bearings in each pedal supporting the spindle. Service kit around £15.

Blimey, I didn't think I'd see these again;



http://urbanvelo.org/bebop-pedals-first-impressions/

http://www.beboppedals.com/pdf/INSTRUCTIONS.pdf

shame the pedals cost so much to buy in the first place.

Also just seen these



http://www.gizmag.com/bioconform-bius1-ergonomic-bicycle-pedals/30068/

which frankly look ridiculous to me. But then, if I had bad knees maybe I'd use anything. They claim lateral movement and twisting is possible. No idea about the bearings though other than they are 'Teflon coated' which makes them sound like bushings to me.

cheers

[MGate]

Bebops - I picked up some from an ebay store, about £70 brand new, so a bit pricier than Shimano stuff, but after Shimano pedals gave my knees some grief they're worth every penny! I also contacted a guy in the states via ebay and bought some Titanium axles for about £40 delivered - surplus from the F22 Raptor program apparently... very stable close to the speed of sound...

They also have a very low stack height, meaning that some shoes need a bit of tread trimming off to not foul the spindle. I've got Sidi shoes and they needed a millimetre trimming.

There's a photo on this page towards the bottom https://fiomull.wordpress.com/the-bikes/ with the older steel spindles in.

Could do with having a reversed thread on the retaining screw on the RH pedal, so if you do take them apart they need locktite on the retaining screw or the RH pedal will unscrew itself and fall off! Lesson learned... but 1000miles later and they've been fine. Cleats are fine to walk in too!

Not sure why they are hard to get hold of or out of production... The only real alternative for that amount of float and recessed cleat are Speedplay frogs.

[Brucey]

with Bebops how is the cleat on the shoe? Good for walking in..? Any wear or dirt jamming problems?

I agree that the speedplay pedals offer a load of float etc but they also offer different pedal spindle lengths and custom fitting via shims. Shims can be DIYed for most pedals but nothing beats having a system that is designed to accept them from the start. Pedal extenders can extend any pedal but they are a blunt instrument by comparison with the various spindle lengths that Speedplay offer.

I guess the thing is that Shimano SPD PD-M520s are so cheap to buy that you may as well try them before trying something else. (I think it is worth spending as much as it takes on shoes BTW, and the stiffer the better) Some early SPD designs offered very little float but the current ones do have a fair amount. If current SPDs don't offer enough float it isn't very difficult to modify the cleats so that they have a load more; a few minutes with a grinder will do it, at risk/cost of a set of cleats and a little time.

The most common complaints about SPDs are of hot foot and lack of float. I suspect that hot foot is often simply because the shoe sole isn't stiff enough for use with a small cleat system (without additional load spreading) and that the float issue is not difficult to address for most folk.

cheers

[Mick F]

The Time Atac has only one bearing?

Depends how you define bearing. Yes there is an outboard cartridge bearing, but in addition to that the whole axle runs as a plain bearing.

Why not have proper ball bearings?

These are my bearings.
I took them out once to have a look and whilst they were out, I slapped some grease on even though it wasn't necessary.
They've done 18,000miles.

[MGate]

I haven't done any serious off roading in mud with the Bebops, the reviews seem to think that they may plug up with mud and looking at the design I can see that. I use crank bros egg beaters offroad. For touring they are fine. The mechanism on the sole is bigger than a standard cleat - and gets in the way a little more but it's nothing compared to a full on road cleat. They also benefit from a little bit of lube smeared on, I use a little copper grease.

Agree about the Speedplays and shims. I shim my right pedal to straighten my right knee, this is easy enough to achieve with the Bebops but the plate on the sole of the shoe has to be tensioned and supported properly to prevent it from twisting, I think shop bought shims would be better than layers of ice cream tub plastic! Was going to suggest to the OP about the straightness of his knee and shimming, but decided to keep a lid on that particular can of worms!

Shimano pedals - well I bought a couple of bikes from a chap who was retiring from the great race and these had Shimano on and a couple of spare sets too - so I gave them a go but it seems that I couldn't get the angles right which gave rise to a little warm sensation on one side of the knees. Of course I would alter only to get a warm sensation on the other side of the knee... couldn't get it right.

To come back to float - it is amazing to see how much the angle of my foot changes when peddling when there is no restriction - especially climbing. Let me know if you'd like to see any photos of the cleats etc in situ and I'll sort something out.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

To come back to float - it is amazing to see how much the angle of my foot changes when peddling when there is no restriction - especially climbing. Let me know if you'd like to see any photos of the cleats etc in situ and I'll sort something out.

This is what makes me cringe.
When you foot is swiveling your femur is rotating.......................and because of this the knee is not tracking on a plane perpendicular to the pedal spindle or bottom bracket..................

[MGate]

Well that was after I had my knee tracking sorted... so I must be doing something wrong somewhere...

[Mick F]

I have plenty float on my pedals - more than enough.
When I ride, my feet are clipped in securely, but every now and again I can shift the alignment if I so wish. My feet don't move their alignment during the pedalling, unless I so wish it.

Looking down, I see that my right foot is naturally at a different angle to my left foot (pointing inwards a tad) and I try to make it the same as the right foot - parallel. Trouble is, if I look down sometime later, the left foot has resumed its natural position again.

[MGate]

Same experience here Mick. I guess my legs are not to JIS, most likely they weren't clamped firmly enough in the jig when they were assembled!

Mind you 'back in the day' on shoes and plates there was no float at all - and you couldn't get your feet out if you didn't slacken the toe strap. Did plenty of miles on those too.

[Mick F]

Yes, plenty!

I had the odd fall unceremoniously at sudden unforeseen stops. I used to commute, and when I made it to the traffic lights just before I got to work, I would make sure I unclipped in plenty of time. I wonder why my knees and ankles never complained about the restriction, but my knees always complained if I fell to one side at the un-planned stops. Many was the time I received a rip in my tights and a scab on the kneecap.

These days, it's far simpler and less fuss. Never had an "off" with these pedals. Just a quick flick of the ankle, and the foot is released. Also, when riding, the feet can align themselves as they think fit. How did we manage in the olden days?

[MGate]

With you there on those experiences Mick - including a couple of traffic light stops (including laying on the road clipped in in front of an inpatient Volvo) and a memorable occasion when my toestrap had frozen and wouldn't release... Mind you one of my proudest cycling moments was when I managed to reach down and push off a kerb instead on the usual fall off clipped in job!

Yes you are right about these 'new fangled' pedal systems - what do you ride? Speedplays?