Can taxis go down this road?

[Fatou]

I ask because I have to always give up pull over when taxis are coming the other way when I travel down here.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=northampton&safe=off&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Northampton,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&sqi=2&ll=52.23732,-0.895571&spn=0,0.001373&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=52.237164,-0.895571&panoid=ppw5G13Foq3JU0iY7lrSHQ&cbp=12,159.74,,0,0

Its in Northampton, to be honest its not just taxis but private cars too.

[rualexander]

Looks pretty straightforward, no motorised vehicles except buses.

[thirdcrank]

That sign - diagram 619 (more commonly known as the flying motorbike) bans motorvecles, as rualexander says. The only way to be completely sure what applies on a particular street is to check the traffic regulation order (TRO) which should be available at your council highways department. (Any offence is not one of failing to comply with that sign, but of ignoring the TRO.)

[AlanD]

You could try holding the centre of the road to bring the errant taxi to a stop, then point out to them that they are not allowed to use this road. If the driver get's all ***** about it, you could add that you will be forwarding the taxi licence number to the Police.

[Mick F]

I reckon TC has hit the nail on the head.
It's the sign that's probably wrong. Maybe it should say something different.

However, if it is the correct sign, any motor vehicle using the road is in contravention of the law unless it's a bus.

Now, define "bus".

[thirdcrank]

I think it's fair to say that whenever 'bus only' routes like this are created, taxi interests lobby to have the exemption extended to taxis, and then private hire ditto. It is quite common, I think, for taxi's to be exempt but by no means universal. I think the main point is that if taxi's are not exempt, then that will be because of a deliberate stance by the local council, in the face of a lot of lobbying.

I'd inquire about the TRO and if taxi's are banned, take it up with the relevant bit of the council. There will be some local history and some councillors will have had this as a pet project. Identify one who is anti-taxi and complain.

I'm never one for advocating people 'discipline' other road users, and in spite of what has been suggested above, I'd gang warily here. Whenever there is any sort of survey of poorly understood traffic signs, the flying motorbike is up at the top of the total confusion list.

[Fatou]

Thanks for the replies.

Its a strange state of affairs when a sign could be so wrong. Perhaps the council is risking a court appearance should someone be injured by a non-bus travelling down the road.

The time needed to find out whether there is a TRO and then to get it enforced is too great as to make it impractical. Still, perhaps a single call to the council could do it.

[thirdcrank]

Thanks for the replies.

Its a strange state of affairs when a sign could be so wrong. ....

I think the odds are that that all motor vehicles - including taxis - are banned with only buses exempt. The point I was trying to make above is that the signs is no guarantee.

Failing to comply with some listed traffic signs - eg traffic lights, STOP and GIVE WAY signs, double white lines in the middle of the road, is an offence of failing to comply with a traffic sign. Most signs, such as this one, and also including speed limits, yellow lines and plenty of others, simply give warning that there is a traffic regulation order and it is the exact wording of that order which determines what offences, if any, have been committed. Obviously, councils go to a lot of trouble to ensure the correct signs are used, but I can point to various examples where this has not been the case.

[Fatou]

I only sent one email using there email form on the CC website. They showed all the email responses with the different departments. Very Transparent.

The traffic regulation order for St Giles Square is:-

Prohibition of motor vehicles except:-

Emergency services vehicles,
Local authority vehicles, Statutory utility vehicles,
Buses, taxis, funeral vehicles
Loading or unloading,
Private hire vehicles (between 11pm and 5am),
Vehicles that are entering or leaving the permit holders parking place.

Kind regards,

More complicated than the sign suggests, guess I'd better get out of their way. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Thirdcrank.

[thirdcrank]

And thanks for letting us know the result.

[mark a.]

Interesting.

I have a similar situation outside Woking train station, where the sign specifically only allows buses, taxis and bikes, but normal cars head down that way regularly:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=type:tr ... .69,,0,6.6

It's fine when you're used to it, but I've had to check myself a few times when crossing the road since you should expect the cars to turn right instead of going straight on past the station.

Following your example, I might see ask Woking council about the TRO in force.

[thirdcrank]

The "flying motor bike" - no motor vehicles diagram 619 - is - as I think I posted above - regularly identified as one of the most widely misunderstood signs. That can only be made worse if exceptions are not clear.

I've looked it up in the Traffic Signs rules which don't give much guidance to help with this query. Apart from obvious statutory exceptions (emergency vehicles, utilities etc) any exemptions to the order should be specified on an explanatory plate (diagram 620) I should have thought that this would be "Except for buses, taxis, and access" in this case, but I'm no expert.

The signs for bus lanes - in all their various forms cover several pages in the manual and there are all sort sof variations to the basic bus lane sign to achieve the exact effect desired. (Even then, if the exact sign is not specified, the menfrom theministry will help design a special one for ministerial approval, There is also quite a bit of advice on what other prohibitions need to be in place to minimise exeptions. It's always going to be necessary to permit access by emergency and utility vehicles but apart from that, the main idea of bus lanes is to allow buses and sometimes taxis a clear run. It's also often appropriate to permit cyclists to use bus lanes.

Enforcement can be a problem in that it's never going to be 100%. The official line is that they look for a certain %age of self-enforcement (something like 80% IIRC) and if that's achieved, the scheme is seen as working. Then, there may be occasional 'crackdowns' to wipe the smirk from the faces of those who selfishly benefit from others being more law-abiding.

[[XAP]Bob]

More complicated than the sign suggests, guess I'd better get out of their way. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Thirdcrank.

There is no requirement to get out of their way - unless of course you're going the wrong way up a one way street?

You both have valid access to the road, they have no more right to the road than you do.

Just looked - there is no obvious priority in either direction, so no requirement for you to get out of the way.
Note that in practice it is probably easier for you to pull over a fair amount, but don't do so until the taxi has slowed enough for you to have to room to pass safely.

[thelawnet]

Interesting.

I have a similar situation outside Woking train station, where the sign specifically only allows buses, taxis and bikes, but normal cars head down that way regularly:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=type:tr ... .69,,0,6.6

It's fine when you're used to it, but I've had to check myself a few times when crossing the road since you should expect the cars to turn right instead of going straight on past the station.

Following your example, I might see ask Woking council about the TRO in force.

Not a bad idea. I was stopped by a van driver near there asking me how to get onto the High Street. I told him it was just the next road, and he said 'yes but I can't go down that way'. I was quite surprised, as in my experience nobody pays the sign any regards at all. I told him he would have to go all the way out and onto the dual carriageway towards Guildford and turn left at Toys R Us. OTOH I had a van drive towards me against the one way sign at the far-end of Commercial Way (which is cycling allowed both ways, motor vehicles one way only). Woking is lawless like that..

[thirdcrank]

I've found this arrangement dangerous:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc ... 1,,1,11.83

As well as the Inner Ring Road, Leeds has a sort of inner inner ring road, and within that the so-called bus box, which allows vehicles to access premises, but has "bus gates" at regular intervals to prevent drivers from using longer lengths of the road to flout the scheme.

At the location in the streetview, the Loop and the bus box share the same bit of road, but the right turn lane is a "bus gate" ib broad terms for buses and pedal cyclists only. The sign on the pole is one of the pole is one of those poorly-understood, widely-ignored bus lane signs:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc ... 6,,0,-2.71

It's badly placed and easily hidden by buses, and made even less effective by only applying at certain times. It's no big deal if a driver - by accident or design - uses the bus lane on the approach (the friendly tooting of bus horns soon puts them right) but the savvy drivers use the straight ahead lane and then just nip into a gap when they have had a quick look for a warden. If that gap happens to include a cyclist it's just hard luck.