Johnny Hoogerland

[jan19]

The telly has certainly had an effect on all this. I watched Thomas Voeckler being interviewed yesterday evening in English (and he spent a lot of time thanking his team.) Once upon a time, a journalist who started a post-race interview in anything other than French would have been booed eg it happened to an American interviewer who got first go at Geg Lemond. It's all so much more international now, and the interpretation facilities seem pretty good, when needed. At one point they had a female interpreter who seemed to be fluent in at least five languages and she seemed to know all the cycling jargon. All pretty slick.

Yes, I saw that too - he came over as a really nice guy, but that may be because he has such a lovely smile. Mark Cavendish just doesn't come over particularly well, in the same way Andy Murray doesn't but that doesn't mean they're not thoroughly nice people.

Interesting comment about the language - I remember being very surprised a few years back when Lance Armstrong did an interview speaking fluent French. I don't know why I should have been, except we all expect everyone to speak English...

Jan

[reohn2]

But doesn't do himself any favours with the media or I suspect the peloton when he complains and whinges.Contrast him with Contador,GT, or Johnny's interviews

No I guess you're right - I bet they really get hacked off by the way he constantly thanks his team when he wins and constantly apologises to them when he loses.

ians

Its simple manners to give grace to the winner,the strongest,the one who got it right on the day.
He did manage it toward Gripel when he pipped him,if only he'd use his head when being interviewed he'd make himself more friends and less enemies.
Who wouldn't thank his own team for protecting him and looking after him all day
Cav in an drag is the fastest man on the planet of that theres no doubt,if he'd interview as well as he sprinted...........

[thirdcrank]

... Interesting comment about the language - I remember being very surprised a few years back when Lance Armstrong did an interview speaking fluent French. I don't know why I should have been, except we all expect everyone to speak English...

Just to tie in with the dangerous driving by the accompanying vehicles, once upon a time, the top riders were seen as "patrons" who were expected to protect the intersts of the lesser riders. On one occasion, Greg lemond expressed the general concers of the peloton by riding up to the motor cycle camera and instead of blowing a kiss issued a stern warning in French about dangerous riding: fluent, but sounding like Ted Heath with an American accent.

Incidentally, one of Paul S's claims to fame is that he was the unofficial shop steward of the domestiques.

[swansonj]

Man of granite indeed. Unlike our own whingiér (sic) Cav.

Unlike Cav, who has a bit of a habit of winning.....

But doesn't do himself any favours with the media or I suspect the peloton when he complains and whinges.Contrast him with Contador,GT, or Johnny's interviews

Winning in sport is about psychology as well as skill and fitness. Different sportpeople find that different approaches work for them. If (and I've no idea if this is the case with Cav or not, so this is hypothetical) teaching a cyclist to be politer in interviews took something away from his competitiveness, which would you choose to have: a whingeing complaining winner, or a polite loser?

Every now and again, you get a sportsperson for whom the psychology that enables them to win is being nice. That appears to have been the case for Bjorn Borg, Alain Prost, Sebastian Coe. But for every Borg you have many McEnroes, for every Prost you have several Sennas, Mansells etc.

If you'll allow me another example from motor racing, put simplistically, Damon Hill spend several seasons being nice and a gentleman and finishing second. Then he decided to be more selfish, more aggressive, and probably less nice, and won the world championship. Now he has happily reverted to being nice.

[loafer]

he must have the heart of a lion ..a few pics

[reohn2]

Winning in sport is about psychology as well as skill and fitness. Different sportpeople find that different approaches work for them. If (and I've no idea if this is the case with Cav or not, so this is hypothetical) teaching a cyclist to be politer in interviews took something away from his competitiveness, which would you choose to have: a whingeing complaining winner, or a polite loser?

Every now and again, you get a sportsperson for whom the psychology that enables them to win is being nice. That appears to have been the case for Bjorn Borg, Alain Prost, Sebastian Coe. But for every Borg you have many McEnroes, for every Prost you have several Sennas, Mansells etc.

If you'll allow me another example from motor racing, put simplistically, Damon Hill spend several seasons being nice and a gentleman and finishing second. Then he decided to be more selfish, more aggressive, and probably less nice, and won the world championship. Now he has happily reverted to being nice.

It doesn't make the whingers/complainers,etc popular though does it?
You give examples of sports where its a one person effort (I know theres a back up team,etc) Cycling is completely different.Life on the road can be made a lot harder by other members of the peloton especially if the rider isn't popular with the rest of the bunch.
You may have noticed how this years TdeF hasn't suited Cav particularly,(though he's done a great job winning and hilding the green jersey) thats not by chance.
Cav doesn't do himself any favours by gobbing off at every interview,the race is hard enough without making it any harder for himself,it doesn't get anymore psychological than that.

[anthonypedals]

Hoogerland has been great.

About Cav though. Surely he just demonstrates that he is a complex character who has a lot going on inside his head. I have found him to be entirley human and do not take offence at his comments. He is a brilliant rider who sufers some agonies - win or lose.

Why would we want him to be a media friendly clone?

[reohn2]

.......Why would we want him to be a media friendly clone?

I wouldn't see someone making life easier (however little) for himself as being a media clone,a man can speak his mind but sometimes its better to mind what he speaks and yes I agree he his a complex character but then so is everyone else.

[DaveP]

I dont generally follow any sort of sport, so Cavendish's past outpourings are a closed book to me. I haven't heard him say anything controversial during the current tour either, for that matter.

That Schleck guy though! (neatly concealing uncertainty about which one )
There's something deeply disturbing about a cyclist griping about going downhill...
Its unnatural, that's what it is!

[Trigger]

I wouldn't have Cav any other way, there's little wonder we're crap at sports with a "it's just not cricket, old boy" attitude to everything. He's appreciated much more on the continent than he is by his own countrymen, which tells you all you need to know about British sports fans. Winning just isn't enough for some.

[timmitchell]

If I can I now want to change the title of this thread to Hoogerland / Voekler thread

Im loving 'little' Tommy

[beetroot]

Yeah, he gave it everything today, a heroic effort.

My only worry is that he looked so knackered, even in the post race interview I fear that he may fail to recover sufficienty to survive in yellow with another hard day racing in the mountains. I hope I'm proved wrong

[thirdcrank]

... My only worry is that ...

I'm really hoping that the only thing that has upped his performance has been the yellow jersey effect. His race this year has been heroic (I've not watched my recording of today's stage.)

[reohn2]

Tommy..........Magnifique!

[Trigger]

Yes, Schleck was easily looking like being rider of the day, and still was in the end IMO, but that push in the last 10k to stick with Evans to hold on to yellow pushed Schleck's effort very close. The picture of his face going over the line is all you need to sum him up.

Great stage today.