How to load OSM map into Basecamp on PC

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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DaveP
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Re: How to load OSM map into Basecamp on PC

Post by DaveP »

I've been following the resurrection of this thread with some interest. Its several months since I managed to load an open source map into my GPSMap62s. and its probably time to consider - an update. Quiver!!!
In the end I did buy and install the Garmin City Navigator. Its a familiar format, I've got some idea about when its not going to cope, and for the price it seemed silly not to have it when I mainly cycle on road and was preparing for a JoGLE. I wanted to support it with another map because CitNav gets 'em in a bit of a twist if you leave the approved tarmac behind, and there was a possibility that that might be an issue for us.
I had problems with installing talky toasters maps on my pc - not the maps per se - misleading instructions on the web site combined with my particular brand of computer illiteracy :D So i went with Velomap. Ended up not using them that much, except for walking forays. I cant comment on their (auto)routing performance because I tend to either plan at home infront of the pc and load a track or I pedal off into the unknown and rely on a satnav to get me home. However I did find it a bit lacking in the sort of detail that gives you peace of mind when walking with a paper OS map.
I think thanks are due to GeoffL and hexhome for running a comparison. On the strength of their work I am now contemplating going to talky toaster for my update, because background detail is what I feel the need for. Mind you, the Velomap is on the SD card, So I'm not going to have problems swapping that out :D As for the pc, well I think the advice offered earlier will help me through! Thanks again!
Trying to retain enough fitness to grow old disgracefully... That hasn't changed!
hexhome
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Location: Hexham, Northumberland

Re: How to load OSM map into Basecamp on PC

Post by hexhome »

Out of interest, I repeated your route in Basecamp; first using Velomap with it set to Tour Cycling
TourCycling.jpg

and then set to Bicycling
bicycling.jpg

Then with Talkytoaster set to Tour Cycling
TTtourcycling.jpg

and then Bicycling
TTbicycling.jpg


My findings were similar to yours Geoff except that as you can see, using Velomap, the NCN route was selected when Bicycling as opposed to Tour Cycling is the Activity Profile. Not sure why this should be, is the NCN route suitable for presumably laden bikes? Most of the time I find that NCN routes are less than ideal if you want to get somewhere! The hilly route sounds no better, though to be fair, all the routes had steep bits! Using Talkytoaster, the route was identical to your findings. I am concerned that in a lot of tests, Talkytoaster seems to use trunk roads which may or may not be ideal for cycling. I tried altering every setting and the route was very reluctant to change until I tried the Trucking profile which gave me a most bizarre route!

Conclusions? I remain satisfied that both products work well in that they produce a route suitable for purpose. Of course it might not be the ideal route according to our own knowledge. I don't want this to be a X verus Y rant but I continue to prefer Velomap for cycle routes and for my purposes Basecamp with Bicycling set as profile.Talkytoaster seems to give a good route for most purposes and for those that don't want a flexible (read don't want to fiddle) solution. Velomap certainly offers the best cycle routes most of the time, I've used it regularly as a stand alone solution on my Etrex to be satisfied of that fact. I also enjoy planning routes on it using Basecamp where I like to fine tune (fiddle with) the route and then upload to the Etrex.
hexhome
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Location: Hexham, Northumberland

Re: How to load OSM map into Basecamp on PC

Post by hexhome »

DaveP wrote: However I did find it a bit lacking in the sort of detail that gives you peace of mind when walking with a paper OS map.


For walking, Talkytoaster has more useful detail. It is not as good as OS maps though. I use BirdsEye Select for that. Not cheap (and not routeable) but at least you can select the exact area you need.
GeoffL
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Re: How to load OSM map into Basecamp on PC

Post by GeoffL »

hexhome wrote:My findings were similar to yours Geoff except that as you can see, using Velomap, the NCN route was selected when Bicycling as opposed to Tour Cycling is the Activity Profile. Not sure why this should be, is the NCN route suitable for presumably laden bikes?

FWIW, the NCN route in question is the Southern end of the Devon Coast-to-Coast (which is ridden each year on many a laden bike) ... and Velomap bypassed the first part. If you look on the Sustrans website, you can find the actual route, which goes from the start via back streets to cross the River Plym at Laira Bridge and then follows the opposite bank of the river to what Velomap chose. (BTW, you can see the NCN route more easily in Velomap if you follow it back to the start from where it crosses the A38) The route Velomap chose is a narrow, shared path that is IMO unsuited to trikes (at least, I'm very reluctant to take my trailer that way because of problems if you meet pedestrians or another cyclist going the other way). OTOH, the NCN route isn't that good because it's got some gates and barriers at which I have to unhitch the trailer to get through, and the route through the grounds of Saltram House is towpath-standard at best. That said, Velomap did go for the Plym Valley Cycleway (which is predominantly tarmac over an old rail bed) in your case!

So, Velomap in bicycling mode on BaseCamp probably chose the best route for a tourist who's not too concerned about getting from A to B in the fastest time, but not the best for a 'roadie' or other faster cyclist.

BTW, this isn't an "X vs Y" thing. I now have both Velomap and TalkyToaster loaded on my Dakota, can switch between them as required (takes less than 20 seconds), intend using both, and you have my thanks for bringing Velomap to my attention. Each has their strengths in the right circumstances, but in my limited experience, neither offers completely reliable routing (but to be fair, neither has any satnav solution I've so far tried), and so I'll continue to manually plan my routes where possible.
hexhome
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Re: How to load OSM map into Basecamp on PC

Post by hexhome »

GeoffL wrote: neither offers completely reliable routing (but to be fair, neither has any satnav solution I've so far tried), and so I'll continue to manually plan my routes where possible.


Agreed :D
GeoffL
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Re: How to load OSM map into Basecamp on PC

Post by GeoffL »

Just to add another twist to the comparison, Hexhome did his routing trials in BaseCamp while I did mine in MapSource ... and I've just noticed that Velomap gave very different results with "Bicycle" as the chosen mode in MapSource than it did with either of the cycling modes in BaseCamp. You can see Hexhome's routes in this post and I've attached the route I got in MapSource.

Velomap/MapSource in "Bicycle" mode
Velomap/MapSource in "Bicycle" mode


So it's not just the mapping that makes a difference, but also the device on which the mapping is used. Thus Velomap with one GPSr could well be more reliable than the same mapping used with another GPSr (or even the same GPSr with a different firmware version). However, the difference the two of us got using Velomap with different Garmin products might also mean that the route you get on the road might not be the route you got while planning it (unless you put in enough waypoints to force the route the way you want to go). So one probably needs to use a little caution, at least until you have enough experience to know whether the route you're given is likely to be good!
hexhome
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Location: Hexham, Northumberland

Re: How to load OSM map into Basecamp on PC

Post by hexhome »

I think that the issue is not so much different software, but the settings within. All of the Autorouting solutions have settings which can be tweaked in order to get as near as possible to the users preference. In my case these for Basecamp;
bsopt.jpg

and these for Mapsource;
msopt.jpg


There is some discussion on settings here; http://www.velomap.org/velomaporg/autorouting/
In particular, this statement from the creator of Velomaps explains your findings exactly;

'With my maps shorter distance already tries to route over nice ways. If you use "faster time" – especially in combination with car/motorcycle then an even higher preference for "nice" ways will be used and routes tend to be longer (more detours) overall. If you use shorter distance the route will be in general straighter and with less detours.'

So it's not the profile name which alters routing so much as the profile settings.
Attachments
msshort.jpg
GeoffL
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Re: How to load OSM map into Basecamp on PC

Post by GeoffL »

Hexhome: Thanks for that. I do have "faster" rather than "shorter" set, as with TalkyToaster mapping "shorter" can send you up some pretty horrible hills. That discussion you linked on 'autorouting' does fly somewhat in the face of what seems instinctively correct to me. That said, once you understand its idiosyncrasies and make the necessary adjustments, I suspect that Velomap will give much better results.
hexhome
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Location: Hexham, Northumberland

Re: How to load OSM map into Basecamp on PC

Post by hexhome »

GeoffL wrote:I suspect that Velomap will give much better results.


Not for all routes - just cycle routes that suit me :D

The result of this 'conversation' is that I've just bought a SD card and am about to attempt to get Velo and Toaster to co-exist, thanks for you valuable instructions.
hexhome
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Location: Hexham, Northumberland

Re: How to load OSM map into Basecamp on PC

Post by hexhome »

GeoffL wrote:MapSource put the .img files onto the device rather than the SD card. FWIW, I don't like to put mapsets onto the device as that implies you need to send the device back to Garmin if the mapping crashes the device. In contrast, if mapping on the SD card crashes the device, you can recover simply by removing the SD card and using your computer to delete the offending file(s). This is relatively easy to fix with Velomap, as you just need to move the mapset files from the device to the SD card before restarting the GPSr.
I've just solved this one
mapop.jpg
mapop.jpg (17.43 KiB) Viewed 1269 times
:)
GeoffL
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Location: SE Cornwall

Re: How to load OSM map into Basecamp on PC

Post by GeoffL »

hexhome wrote:I've just solved this one :)

Thanks for that. For info, I'd worked out that BaseCamp can do that. Even better, it can install the maps directly to an SD card plugged into a reader attached to your computer, and it seems to do it a lot quicker than it does to the SD card in my Dakota. FWIW, I'm currently installing the alternative Velomap style to a second SD card and plan to rename the .IMG file then copy it to the SD card in my GPSr to see if the two styles can coexist and let me switch between them to get the most readable style depending on whether I'm on roads or off-road trails.

Edited to add: Unfortunately, the two Velomap styles don't coexist on my Dakota and only one version appears in the list of maps to enable/disable. I suspect this is because both styles have the same name.
Last edited by GeoffL on 22 Aug 2012, 11:21pm, edited 1 time in total.
hexhome
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Re: How to load OSM map into Basecamp on PC

Post by hexhome »

And I've just successfully installed Toaster and Velo which now happily co-exist on my Etrex 20. Happy days :D
hexhome
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Re: How to load OSM map into Basecamp on PC

Post by hexhome »

GeoffL wrote:Thanks for that. For info, I'd worked out that BaseCamp can do that. Even better, it can install the maps directly to an SD card plugged into a reader attached to your computer, and it seems to do it a lot quicker than it does to the SD card in my Dakota. FWIW, I'm currently installing the alternative Velomap style to a second SD card and plan to rename the .IMG file then copy it to the SD card in my GPSr to see if the two styles can coexist and let me switch between them to get the most readable style depending on whether I'm on roads or off-road trails.


The screen print was from Mapsource, I've not discovered a way of installing maps from Basecamp to GPS/SD card? I've only ever used the GPS version of Velomap so I am eager to hear of your thoughts?

For anyone else, I think that GeoffL and I have explored just about every which way there is of installing OSMs and OCMs onto GPSs and Garmin routing software. It's all easily doable and costs next to nothing. The routing solutions are more than adequate and I fail to see why anyone would pay the extortionate amounts needed for a commercial solution - oh that's IMHO of course :roll:
GeoffL
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Re: How to load OSM map into Basecamp on PC

Post by GeoffL »

hexhome wrote:The screen print was from Mapsource, I've not discovered a way of installing maps from Basecamp to GPS/SD card? I've only ever used the GPS version of Velomap so I am eager to hear of your thoughts?

To install mapping onto a GPSr or an SD card from BaseCamp:
  1. Connect the device or insert the SD card. The device or SD card appears in the list on the left side of the BaseCamp window (see attachment).
  2. Select "All Data" for the GPSr to install to the GPSr internal memory, the memory card of the GPSr to install to the memory card fitted in the device, or "All Data" for the 'stand-alone' memory card mounted as a removable drive in your PC.
  3. From the Utilities menu, choose "Install Maps on <selected device or card>"
  4. Follow the on-screen prompts.
Note that Garmin aren't kidding when they put a warning that the transfer might take hours, and if your computer is anything like mine, BaseCamp will hog 99% of the processor cycles while the transfer is underway!

HTH
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basecamp01.jpg
hexhome
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Re: How to load OSM map into Basecamp on PC

Post by hexhome »

Today I used the Etrex 20 with both maps, Toaster and Velo enabled. To my surprise, this worked well. Toaster has superior contour lines and Velomap has cycle specific routing. I was able to utilise both features together. The map details overlaid each other without any problems. The only issue is that a search for local POIs would reveal some duplicated. This thread has taught me a lot!
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