1990s Dawes Horizon/Galaxy- Reynolds 531 or 501?

[leothelion]

Hi, I'm wondering if anyone out there can help me with a bit of a quandry I have about a Dawes touring frame I bought on Ebay a couple of months ago. When I bought it, the frame was advertised as a Galaxy. and as I didn't know much about bikes and being too trusting, I assumed that what is was. I have done some some research on this forum recently, with a view to getting the frame resprayed/built up and found out that, as it has unicrown forks with a bracket brazed on for a dynamo, it has to be a Horizon( the name decals and most of the others have worn off). This was confirmed on a previous post when somebody identified the tubing on their horizon as 501 by the frame no on the bb which is similar to mine... mine is 95013527, about 7,000 frames on from his. This should confirm, both his frame and mine,was built in 1995. Yet my frame has a Reynolds 531 butted tubes decal at the top of the seat post. But from doing research on this site, Horizons weren't made from 531 till 1997 onwards. Unless anyone can suggest anything else, the cynical side of me thinks that the guy stuck a 531 sticker on there to pass it off as a Galaxy. Is there any other way I can find out/test for sure if the frame is 531 or not, as I want to get it resprayed with the correct decals applied. The frame is metalic bronze/ brown with Dawes in large sloping block capital letters on the downtube. Cheers. Leo

[CREPELLO]

I don't think that fork type is conclusive of anything, unfortunately. I don't have the answer, but I do know that bronze/met brown has been the predominant colour of Super Galaxies throughout the years, where as I don't recall seeing a Horizon in that colour.

[horizon]

leothelion: although crepello is right in that the forks don't prove the case, everything else you say stacks up. Do you have a link to the ebay sale page or a pic? As far as you can see, is the colour original and does the paintwork on the forks match? I don't have a 1995 catalogue but the 1994 and 1996 catalogues do confer. A 1995 Horizon frame would have been lugged and brazed if nothing else (can you verify that it is lugged?). I don't know the OLN or the brake positions which AFAIK are the only other considerations to concern you.

[Malaconotus]

My 1995 Horizon has, as I discovered to my frustration yesterday, a 27.0mm, and not a 27.2 seatpost. It is lugged, and is, I believe, Reynolds 501 although it sports no sticker. The seatpost diameter may provide a clue?

[rjb]

My Dawes Galaxy from approx 1991 used 531st tubing and had a seat post diameter of 27.0mm. I believe 501 tubing had a seat post diameter of 26.8mm. I would not get too hung up on the difference in quality between 501 and 531. Both are quality products and the weight difference is only 100 grammes. From the link here - http://equusbicycle.com/bike/reynolds/0 ... ochure.htm

[gaz]

At first I was wondering about a Dawes Mean Street, so I went digging for an old thread.

There's a link to a '93 catalogue (Dutch) and some interesting comments from CREPELLO about the German model Galaxy having unicrown forks with a bottle dynamo brazing. You'll see a picture on page 16 of the catalogue.

Whatever you've got I hope it makes a nice base for your build.

[johnb]

Any galaxy or super galaxy I owned the serial number was prefixed with a letter.

[bigjim]

My 501 framed Raleigh seatpost is 27.2.

[leothelion]

Thanks for all your replys, folks. horizon, the frame is lugged and(except for differences described) looks the same as the pics of Malaconatus's Horizon in a previous thread with the similar frame numbers. The paint on the frame/forks match and although the paint is poor - chipped/flaky, previously chipped areas crudley painted over, I'm pretty sure its original.... has the headbadge with the sillouette of mountain range/moon and part of DAWES decal on downtube used in late 1990s. I'm going to have it resprayed in the next couple of weeks at Vaz's Finishers in Lewisham (who is excellent by the way) - I'll post some pics when I get it out of storage, if still interested. By the way, frame came with drop handlebars(which I guess rules out a City Street) and seatpost .... has a selle Italia :Brooklands saddle and 27.0 seatpost with 95.10(month?) engraved. Although, in a previous post, that might suggest 531, I'm sure other people would contradict that. the guy whos doing the respray has a brother - he does braze ons/additional work and used to worh at Holdsworth(I think). He's very experienced and may be able to spot a seam that would indicate 501. If I can't identfy it, I can always just keep the frame plain, which'll help deter the bike thieves. Despite me whittering on, I've had a 5011 bike previously and they do make for really good touring bikes, plus, I didn't pay much because of its poor cosmetic condition. I'm just a bit annoyed because it was advertised as a 531 Galaxy nad thats what I expected to get! I've seen a 1997 Dawes Sterling that looks very similar and was 501, but... who Knows. Whatever it is, it'll make a good build for a touring bike and thats all that should matter!! Cheers, Leo

[bigjim]

The old guy at my LBS reckons there is little or no quality difference in 501 or 531. Just one is hand built and the other is machine built. I have both types of bikes and can't tell the difference in ride quality.

[gaz]

In case you haven't looked yet, [url=[url=http://www.koedjoinery.com/Dawes_1993_1.pdf]1993[/url]]turn to page 16[/url].

Mrs gaz's 531ST Super Galaxy came with a 27.0 seat post but a 27.2 is a better fit. Likewise our 531 Galaxy Twin Tandem came with 26.8 but needs a 27.0.

I can spot the seam on my Reynolds Cr-Mo frame, there isn't one to spot on my 531ST.

Whatever it is, it'll make a good build for a touring bike and thats all that should matter!! Cheers, Leo

+1.

[leothelion]

Thanks for the link gaz - now that's interesting, a Galaxy with a unicrown and brazed on dynamo bracket. I'd ruled out a Galaxy due to johnb's post about the lack of a letter prefix on the serial no(unless there's another no on the fame somewhere). Maybe I've got myself a German imported Galaxy(err...maybe not!) Thanks for adding to my confusion!. As I mentioned, I'm going to get the resprayer to have a good look for any signs of a seam after it's been sandblasted.

[mattsccm]

Would the tandem use a different set of tubes? Many would hence the different seat pin size.

Just checked my Tony Oliver book and maybe depending on the tubes as 531 Tandem uses a 27.0 . However 501 and 531 St have the same inner tube size which is less than 531c. 531 mostly uses 27.2 seat pins and ST and 501 27.0 although he argues that a decent silver soldered frame should have a .2mm thicker seat pin. Something that is rarely seen, we assume 27.2 for 531.
You might be able to tell with weight or just maybe the tone of the ring when you tap the down tube for example. 531 should sound differnt to 501 due to their differnt wall thickness's. However you would have to consider so many variables such as tube length and paint cover that this may not work. Worth a try?
531 is a Mn-Mo tube. -Magnesium-Molybdenum? whilst 501 is CR-Mo. Chromium-Molybdenum (sp???)
Quite possibly the ride might be similar but the "legend " attached to 531 isn't there for 501.

[mattsccm]

Forgot to mention wear and tear. 0.2 isn't much and I have had frames wear that much over some years.

[leothelion]

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