1990s Dawes Horizon/Galaxy- Reynolds 531 or 501?

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johnb
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Re: 1990s Dawes Horizon/Galaxy- Reynolds 531 or 501?

Postby johnb » 1 May 2012, 1:47pm

Leo, don't take my serial number as being in anyway definitive as Dawes in the late 1990s started experimenting with having their frames made in both Asia and the Czech rep and the talk on cycleforums was the horizon and galaxy were being made in the same factory on the same production line
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horizon
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Re: 1990s Dawes Horizon/Galaxy- Reynolds 531 or 501?

Postby horizon » 1 May 2012, 1:59pm

johnb wrote:Leo, don't take my serial number as being in anyway definitive as Dawes in the late 1990s started experimenting with having their frames made in both Asia and the Czech rep and the talk on cycleforums was the horizon and galaxy were being made in the same factory on the same production line


The Horizon went 531 at that time so this makes sense. At least I've always depended on the description in the brochure being accurate and honest, i.e. Reynolds 531ST with investment cast lugs.
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Re: 1990s Dawes Horizon/Galaxy- Reynolds 531 or 501?

Postby johnb » 1 May 2012, 2:21pm

horizon wrote:
johnb wrote:Leo, don't take my serial number as being in anyway definitive as Dawes in the late 1990s started experimenting with having their frames made in both Asia and the Czech rep and the talk on cycleforums was the horizon and galaxy were being made in the same factory on the same production line


The Horizon went 531 at that time so this makes sense. At least I've always depended on the description in the brochure being accurate and honest, i.e. Reynolds 531ST with investment cast lugs.



If I remember it anyway half right, someone compared a horizon to a galaxy and the only difference was colour, components and price. Then it leaked out that Dawes were receiving batches of frames which were supposed to have been made in what is now the Czech Rep but were found to be coming from Vietnam. So Dawes cut out the middleman and went direct themselves, it could be the reverse in the countrys named above. Anyway there was a period of 4 to 5 years were some batches of frames did not have the union jack sticker on the frame and that continued until 2002 when all frames were made abroad.

Fast forward till 2006 and Dawes changed the style of frame to sloping top tube and from 531 to 631, there was a period of up to 6 months were you could get old style frame in 631 and the new style frame in 531, more proof of Dawes inconsistency.
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horizon
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Re: 1990s Dawes Horizon/Galaxy- Reynolds 531 or 501?

Postby horizon » 1 May 2012, 2:45pm

That's really interesting Johnb. It's also a sad tale but one which was pretty inevitable. I don't know much about the history of Dawes but they must have been caught up in the whirlwind of globalisation and facing a tsunami of different challenges. I think it's a miracle that the Galaxy is still being produced at all. I stay loyal to Dawes because AFAIAC they are the only mass producer that basically caters for the touring market - EBC comes closest IMV. I know I can say to someone whatever their budget, have a look at Dawes and you will find something half decent that meets your needs (even if you need to go second hand).
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johnb
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Re: 1990s Dawes Horizon/Galaxy- Reynolds 531 or 501?

Postby johnb » 1 May 2012, 3:01pm

I think it has to do with modern fabrication and the machines required to do it on a mass scale. I remember someone posting a few years back that 90% of all tig welded frames are made in the same factory in Taiwan. Apparently the price of the machinery that make the frames is valued in millions of dollars. Even my own hewitt frame has the tubing cut in England, sent to Taiwan for welding and back to England for spraying.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1688


http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/is-my- ... -st.17828/


http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=46703.15
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CREPELLO
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Re: 1990s Dawes Horizon/Galaxy- Reynolds 531 or 501?

Postby CREPELLO » 1 May 2012, 8:34pm

johnb wrote:If I remember it anyway half right, someone compared a horizon to a galaxy and the only difference was colour, components and price. Then it leaked out that Dawes were receiving batches of frames which were supposed to have been made in what is now the Czech Rep but were found to be coming from Vietnam. So Dawes cut out the middleman and went direct themselves, it could be the reverse in the countrys named above. Anyway there was a period of 4 to 5 years were some batches of frames did not have the union jack sticker on the frame and that continued until 2002 when all frames were made abroad.

Fast forward till 2006 and Dawes changed the style of frame to sloping top tube and from 531 to 631, there was a period of up to 6 months were you could get old style frame in 631 and the new style frame in 531, more proof of Dawes inconsistency.
I've not heard these stories before. Fascinating if they are true, but I don't think they made compact frame Gal's out of 531. Was 531 ever available in teardrop down tube and oversized top tube profile?

I understand that Birmingham frame production stopped in 2001 - that's when the UK flag and the 'Hand built in the UK' flash stopped appearing on the frames. The steel Gal's and other upper range steel bikes (basically the Audax, but maybe other Giro models) were the last of the Dawes frames to be built in the UK.

From 2002 - 2004, they continued to be 531 (main tubes only) lugged but were Czech built at the Fort Cycle works who made frames for a number of other big brands. I always understood that all the compact frame Gals are Veitnam made, but the plain Gal often differed to the 853 Super/ultra, so perhaps that was sometimes a Czech built frame.

I've got an unbranded compact frame that is identical to the early compact 631 Gal frame, including a 1" steerer. I sometimes wonder whether this was spec'd by Dawes. The colour is a slightly green tinged blue, which I'm sure I've seen on a Horizon.

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Re: 1990s Dawes Horizon/Galaxy- Reynolds 531 or 501?

Postby johnb » 1 May 2012, 8:44pm

CREPELLO wrote:
johnb wrote:If I remember it anyway half right, someone compared a horizon to a galaxy and the only difference was colour, components and price. Then it leaked out that Dawes were receiving batches of frames which were supposed to have been made in what is now the Czech Rep but were found to be coming from Vietnam. So Dawes cut out the middleman and went direct themselves, it could be the reverse in the countrys named above. Anyway there was a period of 4 to 5 years were some batches of frames did not have the union jack sticker on the frame and that continued until 2002 when all frames were made abroad.

Fast forward till 2006 and Dawes changed the style of frame to sloping top tube and from 531 to 631, there was a period of up to 6 months were you could get old style frame in 631 and the new style frame in 531, more proof of Dawes inconsistency.
I've not heard these stories before. Fascinating if they are true, but I don't think they made compact frame Gal's out of 531. Was 531 ever available in teardrop down tube and oversized top tube profile?

I understand that Birmingham frame production stopped in 2001 - that's when the UK flag and the 'Hand built in the UK' flash stopped appearing on the frames. The steel Gal's and other upper range steel bikes (basically the Audax, but maybe other Giro models) were the last of the Dawes frames to be built in the UK.

From 2002 - 2004, they continued to be 531 (main tubes only) lugged but were Czech built at the Fort Cycle works who made frames for a number of other big brands. I always understood that all the compact frame Gals are Veitnam made, but the plain Gal often differed to the 853 Super/ultra, so perhaps that was sometimes a Czech built frame.


I've got an unbranded compact frame that is identical to the early compact 631 Gal frame, including a 1" steerer. I sometimes wonder whether this was spec'd by Dawes. The colour is a slightly green tinged blue, which I'm sure I've seen on a Horizon.



No they were new style frames old 531 tubing. A fella tried to sell his one on eBay a few years back and got loads of abuse about it being a fake.

Do an internet search and you will come up with loads of stuff that was on all the cycling forums at the time.

In the YACF link above its stated that 1998 was the last year frames were done by Dawes own men.

I also remember Spa Cycles selling new style galaxys made with Reynolds 631 round tubes, sloping top tube and all.

Dawes outsourcing


http://www.whycycle.co.uk/whycycle_foru ... 83,quote=1
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CREPELLO
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Re: 1990s Dawes Horizon/Galaxy- Reynolds 531 or 501?

Postby CREPELLO » 1 May 2012, 9:39pm

johnb wrote:
CREPELLO wrote:
johnb wrote:If I remember it anyway half right, someone compared a horizon to a galaxy and the only difference was colour, components and price. Then it leaked out that Dawes were receiving batches of frames which were supposed to have been made in what is now the Czech Rep but were found to be coming from Vietnam. So Dawes cut out the middleman and went direct themselves, it could be the reverse in the countrys named above. Anyway there was a period of 4 to 5 years were some batches of frames did not have the union jack sticker on the frame and that continued until 2002 when all frames were made abroad.

Fast forward till 2006 and Dawes changed the style of frame to sloping top tube and from 531 to 631, there was a period of up to 6 months were you could get old style frame in 631 and the new style frame in 531, more proof of Dawes inconsistency.
I've not heard these stories before. Fascinating if they are true, but I don't think they made compact frame Gal's out of 531. Was 531 ever available in teardrop down tube and oversized top tube profile?

I understand that Birmingham frame production stopped in 2001 - that's when the UK flag and the 'Hand built in the UK' flash stopped appearing on the frames. The steel Gal's and other upper range steel bikes (basically the Audax, but maybe other Giro models) were the last of the Dawes frames to be built in the UK.

From 2002 - 2004, they continued to be 531 (main tubes only) lugged but were Czech built at the Fort Cycle works who made frames for a number of other big brands. I always understood that all the compact frame Gals are Veitnam made, but the plain Gal often differed to the 853 Super/ultra, so perhaps that was sometimes a Czech built frame.


I've got an unbranded compact frame that is identical to the early compact 631 Gal frame, including a 1" steerer. I sometimes wonder whether this was spec'd by Dawes. The colour is a slightly green tinged blue, which I'm sure I've seen on a Horizon.



No they were new style frames old 531 tubing. A fella tried to sell his one on eBay a few years back and got loads of abuse about it being a fake.

I never read about this and I'm sad enough to have taken an interest in these things having owned a Gal since 2002. I presume that the chap selling this oddity was able to come up with some compelling evidence that it was 531? I really would be interested to read more but unfortunately my google capabilities are limited.

I now own December 1999 built Audax. It too has those 'Hand built in the UK' flashes. I appreciate that it could have onlybeen assembled in the UK. It doesn't really matter as I know it's not up there with the best. There are a couple of minor flaws in the frame construction (eg, excess brass filler left around a couple of lugs. I've seen this on a couple of other Dawes I've owned) . Mind you it handled bloomin well. With it's slightly larger cro-mo chainstays (and Tubus rack :wink: ) it makes a really stable tourer.

I also remember Spa Cycles selling new style galaxys made with Reynolds 631 round tubes, sloping top tube and all
Again, new to me. 2005 was the first year for the Gal to adopt a new style. I know it continued the 1" threaded headset, but did it have a round DT? I've seen them with teardrop DT's. Dawes seemed obsessed with the teardrop down tube until the recent style Galaxy.

As an aside, I think the latest generation Galaxy is a step backwards in style, with it's heavily sloping TT and uni-crown forks. I suppose the oversized DT could be an improvement on the teardrop. The previous Gal with gently sloping TT looked positively classy in comparrison. I had one of those. Quite regret selling it really, but it funded a King Of Mercia project.

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Re: 1990s Dawes Horizon/Galaxy- Reynolds 531 or 501?

Postby johnb » 1 May 2012, 9:59pm

In regard to Spa selling new shape 531 round tube, I was on their website looking at them as I was in the market for a tourer at the time. Spa were the first shop to stock the new style galaxys and they bought up a massive amount of the older style galaxys, which they stocked and sold when they were unobtainable elsewhere. Perhaps someone in spa might know a bit more about when and how many were available.

And in regards to It all being new to you, did you not read any of it on the old cycle+ forum?

You say 2005 for the first sloping frame galaxys, here they are being discussed in early 2004 made from Reynolds 853

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index ... 49881.html
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CREPELLO
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Re: 1990s Dawes Horizon/Galaxy- Reynolds 531 or 501?

Postby CREPELLO » 2 May 2012, 4:20pm

The 48cm lugged 531 Gal was unique in having a slight sloping top tube.

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Re: 1990s Dawes Horizon/Galaxy- Reynolds 531 or 501?

Postby johnb » 2 May 2012, 4:25pm

CREPELLO wrote:The 48cm lugged 531 Gal was unique in having a slight sloping top tube.


Meaning?
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Re: 1990s Dawes Horizon/Galaxy- Reynolds 531 or 501?

Postby CREPELLO » 2 May 2012, 9:56pm

Meaning that this could be compact framed 531 Galaxy that you refer to.

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Re: 1990s Dawes Horizon/Galaxy- Reynolds 531 or 501?

Postby johnb » 2 May 2012, 10:27pm

CREPELLO wrote:Meaning that this could be compact framed 531 Galaxy that you refer to.



At six foot tall, hardly likely.
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Re: 1990s Dawes Horizon/Galaxy- Reynolds 531 or 501?

Postby 531Man » 6 Feb 2020, 6:42pm

RE. " I don't have a 1995 catalogue but the 1994 and 1996 catalogues do confer."
Hi Horizon,
Sorry for reviving this thread, but you could help both me and another poor Dawes owner in one fell swoop.
We are both searching for the '96 catalogue.
And possibly he can be of help to you, he has a scan of the '95 that you seem to need.
He is 'oaklec' on Retrobike, I am 531Man there too.
My recently acquired frame is a late '96 (frame dated 95) Equinox in 531 Competition, purplish metallic blue sports tourer with mudguard eyed dropouts. Also has a date confirming Shimano RSX triple chainset. All prior Equinox years listed appear to be eye-less sports.
I also have a StarRealmRider from my youth but know that one inside out!
Thanks in appreciation of any help you can give us.
Regards,
Robin

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horizon
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Re: 1990s Dawes Horizon/Galaxy- Reynolds 531 or 501?

Postby horizon » 6 Feb 2020, 7:41pm

531man: yes, I do have the 1996 brochure (with your Equinox in it). Do you want some specific information or just a scan of the brochure (it's 36 pages) or your page?

AFAIK the 96 brochure is widely available and comes up on ebay every so often. And AFAIK the Veteran Cycle Club have old Dawes brochures.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from ... e&_sacat=0
The experience of travel is something that you have to pay for but can never buy. Ho Ri Zon Chinese philosopher