Slipping rear wheel-solutions?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
ricardolamos
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Slipping rear wheel-solutions?

Postby ricardolamos » 12 Jun 2012, 8:54pm

I have just refrubished a 1990s Italian frame(chromed rear dropout faces)and am finding that the freewheel side of the rear wheel keeps moving forward in the rear dropout.

I have tried a chromo X-Flite q/r done up as tight as possible without damaging the cam but to no avail.

Can anyone recommend a really solid q/r or allen key(pitloc?)or any other possible solutions.

Many thanks

Richard

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gaz
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Re: Slipping rear wheel-solutions?

Postby gaz » 12 Jun 2012, 8:59pm

First check the axle does not protrude beyond the drop out. If it does then your q/r will clamp down on the axle end first and slip is inevitable.

Assuming you mean an Xlite q/r these appear to me to operate with an external cam. Internal cam skewers (Shimano et al.) are reputed to secure more tightly.
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meic
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Re: Slipping rear wheel-solutions?

Postby meic » 12 Jun 2012, 9:00pm

Is there any chance that the dropouts are thinner than the ones the wheel was previously used on?

In which case some thicker spacers (or filing off the ends of the axle a bit) may help.
Yma o Hyd

ricardolamos
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Re: Slipping rear wheel-solutions?

Postby ricardolamos » 12 Jun 2012, 9:08pm

Thanks Guys

Will check axle situation and also try a Shimano q/r and see if that works

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CREPELLO
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Re: Slipping rear wheel-solutions?

Postby CREPELLO » 12 Jun 2012, 10:26pm

My Mercian has the same problem - ie, chromed rear horizontal dropouts. A solution I was given was to use copper washers between the QR nuts and dropouts, the copper being a softer metal that the dropouts may bite into more (the knurled finish of the dropout nuts just gets flattened by chrome or stainless dropouts).

Being a skinflint, I thought rather than buy copper washers, I would make them from 1 pence pieces. Grand cost - 2p :D This I finally did the other day. I have installed them, but as yet have yet to take the bike out to see if this works. Threadlock compound may also help stablise the assembly. The only thing is that modern coppers are only copper over a base metal, perhaps a bit more than mere plating. But it could be that the old copper pennies ( pre 1990ish IIRC) would form better to the dropouts than the new ones.

One thing I noticed was that I drilled the holes just big enough for the QR axle, but then realised that the springs would no longer fit. So I dispensed with them. I wonder, is there any good reason why the springs are there in the first place?

mattsccm
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Re: Slipping rear wheel-solutions?

Postby mattsccm » 13 Jun 2012, 7:13am

Decent QR's. Eg old style Shimano or Campag. ie those where the lever goes through the shaft.
Job done.

Nettled Shin
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Re: Slipping rear wheel-solutions?

Postby Nettled Shin » 13 Jun 2012, 10:27am

Make sure the lock nuts on the axle are nicely serrated and have the serrations facing outwards; these bite into the inside face of the dropout and this interface is primarily what holds the axle steady.
The other tip I received on this forum was to check that the two dropout faces are parallel with each other. If the frame has ever been spread, they may not be.

Ayesha
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Re: Slipping rear wheel-solutions?

Postby Ayesha » 13 Jun 2012, 2:37pm

The solution, although a little late now, is to coarse shot blast the inside faces of the dropout before chroming.

Lee Cooper ( LA Cycles ) did this on a refurb frame for me. 1/10 for Mercian.

ANTONISH
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Re: Slipping rear wheel-solutions?

Postby ANTONISH » 13 Jun 2012, 4:43pm

Is the OLN dimension on the hub wider than the drop out width? i.e do you have to "spring " the rear end open to fit the wheel?. If so, the ends wont be parallel to the locknuts - as has already been pointed out the same as if the rear had been reset without the rear ends being properly paralleled. I've also found that the Campag skewer helps.

teh

Re: Slipping rear wheel-solutions?

Postby teh » 23 Jun 2012, 12:17am

Chromed horizontal rear dropouts are a stupid idea. I'd get the angle-grinder out and roughen them up, or if I could afford it, get the dropouts replaced with vertical ones. Otherwise, you simply have one of the most stupid cycling ideas ever conceived, and you will be struggling to cope with it. With chromed dropouts you can't go uphill, and with the ridiculous head-angle of some of these 90's frames, you can't go downhill either!

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CREPELLO
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Re: Slipping rear wheel-solutions?

Postby CREPELLO » 23 Jun 2012, 2:29pm

teh wrote:Chromed horizontal rear dropouts are a stupid idea. I'd get the angle-grinder out and roughen them up, or if I could afford it, get the dropouts replaced with vertical ones. Otherwise, you simply have one of the most stupid cycling ideas ever conceived...
Steady on :shock: . Those are rather radical solutions for a problem I can overcome for two pennies. :D

I've just tried out the copper penny washers (real pennies!) on my Mercian and I couldn't get the wheel to slip. Obviously I should get some miles in to be certain, but previously I'd had regular steel washers and they didn't slip either. I think the engineering principle is sound - when a softer metal is mated to a harder metal the soft effectively grips the hard metal in a way that two hard surfaces would not. Perhaps a metalurgist here would care to explain how this works?

The knurled face of the QR nuts is really designed to grip into yeilding material, like paint. The knurling offers less grip on hard shiny surfaces IMO. As I said above, the knurling on my QR's has become blunted from being fitted to chrome and stainless steel dropouts. In this case the best way of obtaining the highest grip is to have nut faces that are soft and flat. The washer provides these features. Roughening the washer could help, but not to the extent of the finish of a knurled nut.

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Mick F
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Re: Slipping rear wheel-solutions?

Postby Mick F » 23 Jun 2012, 3:21pm

Defacing the Queen's coinage eh?
That's a hanging offence I believe.

Yes, chrome is a hard metal, and the QRs won't bite into it to make a good grip. Copper washers is a good idea, but as a good citizen and faithful subject of HMQ, I'd buy the washers. :wink:
Mick F. Cornwall

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gaz
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Re: Slipping rear wheel-solutions?

Postby gaz » 23 Jun 2012, 6:51pm

It was an offence under the Coinage Offences Act 1936 to deface current coin of the realm. This was repealed in its entirety by the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981, thus enabling pennies to be re-engineered into washers.

As for hanging ... The Human Rights Act 1998 (13th protocol) prohibits the death penalty in all circumstances, even when a crime has been commited.
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CREPELLO
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Re: Slipping rear wheel-solutions?

Postby CREPELLO » 23 Jun 2012, 7:05pm

Well, I am a republican, but I wasn't making washers out of the queen's image as a protest!
I don't mind being patriotic when it comes to celebrating British engineering and I do think that the British Copper Washer is a nice compliment to the fine Mercian workmanship of my bike :mrgreen:

How many other good uses could there be for the queens image in copper? I already use one (head down :o ) as a weight on the map securing band of my Carradice bar bag (stops it flapping so much).
I've always thought that pennies or even 2p's would make for great bar end caps if they could be attached to a bung solidly. Something to compliment the Brooks copper rivets.

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meic
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Re: Slipping rear wheel-solutions?

Postby meic » 23 Jun 2012, 7:13pm

You had better build up a collection of the copper based ones.

I have a collection of green spots on the floor of my (damp) car which used to be one and two pence coins of the new type!

Can I be patriotic too and say Britain has some of the best Republicans in the world. 8)
Yma o Hyd