Trial and Error. Advice?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
simplicity
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Joined: 17 Sep 2012, 8:16pm

Trial and Error. Advice?

Postby simplicity » 14 Nov 2012, 2:14pm

Hi,

Posted on here a few weeks back with intentions of learning more about the mechanics of a bike.

Having just picked up a 1960's Claud Butler for pennies, I've just begun taking it apart - with the intention of learning the mechanics by trying to bring it back to it's former glory.

A few queries you guys might be able to answer...

1.) The forks are/were a beautiful chrome, but are now quite heavily rusted. Is there a way to restore them to their former glory without spending a lot of money? As we speak I have just applied the paint stripper to the frame - hoping to spray the frame a metallic copper colour and restore the chrome forks for a nice match.

2.) The 'Claud Butler' Made in England badge on the headset is attached via two very small allen bolts - however, the hexagonal grooves have been damaged into circles - meaning I can't seem to unscrew the badge with my set of allen keys. Any tricks for getting it off in such a situation? In the worst case scenario, I can just masking tape over it during spray...but not ideal.

3.) Is it easy enough to replace ball bearings? As I removed the headset, the two sets of bearings went all over the place, and I subsequently lost a few in the garden :oops: I was expecting them to be attached to a cylinder that holds them in place - like the ones in the crank - but they were simply sitting in a groove - is this because of the age of the bike? Are these easily replaced or will it have consequences to the other parts of the headset?

4.) Am I right in thinking that now all the pieces have been removed, if I give them all a good clean, the bike will run a lot smoother than before?

Sorry, if the questions seem really mundane, but am a novice.............at the moment. :D

Thanking you all in advance

Max

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meic
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Re: Trial and Error. Advice?

Postby meic » 14 Nov 2012, 2:24pm

The headbadge is more than likely held on by rivets rather than rounded hex-screws, they just look like hexscrews rounded off, unless somebody has taken it off and replaced it before you got the bike.

It was probably a good idea to replace the ball bearings any way, certainly is now as you dont know which were from the top or bottom and they will have worn to different sizes.
They are available in open cages, that is what mine had on a slightly older bike. I dont know where you would buy them though.

Yes nice fresh grease and adjusting bearings throughout will make it a beauty of a bike, for a while at least.

Every time I ride my 30 year old Holdsworth, I wonder why I spent the money on my new titanium toy, until I get to about 100 miles, then I get reminded.
Yma o Hyd

Russcoles
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Location: Bristol, UK

Re: Trial and Error. Advice?

Postby Russcoles » 14 Nov 2012, 2:29pm

Surface rust on chrome can be removed by a weak acid and aluminium foil. screw up some kitchen foil and rub the chrome with lemon juice, vinegar, ketchup or similar.

simplicity
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Joined: 17 Sep 2012, 8:16pm

Re: Trial and Error. Advice?

Postby simplicity » 14 Nov 2012, 2:37pm

Aaaaahhhh...rivets. That would be why the allen keys aren't working then. :D Have just seen on another thread that a good way of getting the rivets out is to file the inside of the headset and prize them out. So will give this a try now.

Tin foil and ketchup? Sounds quite a bit like a wind up. :D Will give the lemon juice a try now then. Out of interest, do you know why this combination works?

Thank you both for the advice.

Probably be a few more questions throughout the next few days though :D

thirdcrank
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Re: Trial and Error. Advice?

Postby thirdcrank » 14 Nov 2012, 3:14pm

If you replace ball bearings, replace them all (ie all the balls in a race.) Don't replace a few and keep the rest as spares. Ball bearings are graded for size (the higher the quality, the finer the grading) but they are only graded within their own batch. Batches should not be mixed, even when new.

reohn2
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Re: Trial and Error. Advice?

Postby reohn2 » 14 Nov 2012, 3:37pm

1) Solvol Autosol,chrome cleaner.
2)drill the heads off the rivets and glue the head badge back on after paint job with Araldite.
3) replace the balls with new from here:- http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/index.php?cPath=23
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andymiller
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Re: Trial and Error. Advice?

Postby andymiller » 14 Nov 2012, 4:10pm

reohn2 wrote:1) Solvol Autosol,chrome cleaner.


+1 I found that for rust on chrome wire wool + autosol works relatively well, although if the rust is really bad then the only solution would be replating.
Italy Cycling Guide - a resource for cycle touring in Italy.

mattsccm
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Re: Trial and Error. Advice?

Postby mattsccm » 14 Nov 2012, 5:41pm

Unless you are being super fussy bearingsd should be in any bike shop by the million. You will be able to buy them caged to make things easier if you so wish. Budget on big money if so . Maybe a fiver for the top and bottom if you pay full retail price!!
The foil thing works.
Drill rivets out gently. Glue badge back on and fake rivets if you can't find something similar

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meic
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Re: Trial and Error. Advice?

Postby meic » 14 Nov 2012, 5:49pm

Assuming that the Claud Butler has the same headset as the Holdsworth, all the bikes of that era seemed to have the same one, I wouldnt know where to buy a clip of bearings to fit that race.
So I am afraid it may have to be loose ball bearings.
Yma o Hyd

nirakaro
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Re: Trial and Error. Advice?

Postby nirakaro » 14 Nov 2012, 6:06pm

It's a long time since I played with headset bearings, but I seem to remember that the balls are very small and there's a lot of them. If you've lost a few you may not know how many to use: someone else may be able to warn you of the consequences of using too few or too many!
A good dollop of grease helps to keep them in place while you're reassembling it.
When you've got more questions, you may be better posting them in the technical section rather than here.

byegad
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Re: Trial and Error. Advice?

Postby byegad » 14 Nov 2012, 9:07pm

I was told by an old LBS owner in the 1960s to try and fit as many balls in the race as possible. THEN remove one and that's always the right number.
"I thought of that while riding my bike." -Albert Einstein, on the Theory of Relativity

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simplicity
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Joined: 17 Sep 2012, 8:16pm

Re: Trial and Error. Advice?

Postby simplicity » 15 Nov 2012, 11:36am

Thanks for all your responses.

Progress is as follows...

1.) Forks. Very impressed with how well the tin foil and lemon juice worked in removing surface rust. However, unfortunately, it looks as if the rust has made it down to the steel. Can anybody recommend the best way to now get the forks re-chromed? I've seen on another thread that a 'London Re-Chroming' will do it, just wondering if there was a 'DIY' way?

2.) The Headset Badge was removed by clipping around the slots that hold the rivets. I will just re-glue when the paint is dry - if the rain clouds ever subside and let me begin priming! :x

3.) Ball Bearings will be bought from the link provided. Any tricks for finding size if i was to buy on line and thus not have the ''knowledge'' of the local trader to help?


Thanks Again.

reohn2
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Re: Trial and Error. Advice?

Postby reohn2 » 15 Nov 2012, 12:18pm

simplicity wrote:3.) Ball Bearings will be bought from the link provided. Any tricks for finding size if i was to buy on line and thus not have the ''knowledge'' of the local trader to help?


Thanks Again.

Measure the exsisting one's?
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meic
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Re: Trial and Error. Advice?

Postby meic » 15 Nov 2012, 4:19pm

3/16ths is what my Holdsworth has, so that would be the most likely in my opinion.

You could of course go crazy and stock up on all sorts when you make the order.

1/4" for the rear hub and bottom bracket
3/16" for the headset and front hub

is what MY bikes have.
Yma o Hyd

simplicity
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Joined: 17 Sep 2012, 8:16pm

Re: Trial and Error. Advice?

Postby simplicity » 22 Nov 2012, 3:25pm

Thanks for all the help.

Parts have been purchased from my LBS - who have in turn welcomed me to visit the shop on Saturdays to help out and learn more about the mechanical side of riding.

Pictures will be posted when the final bike is re-assembled - currently waiting for my forks to be re-chromed.

Thanks again