(Appologies for raising what's probably a perennial topic...)
Can anyone offer from experience recommendations for panniers (a list of requirements and considerations, or even actual brands and models). Functionality and weight are my primary concerns before cost, and they'd be used for camping touring anywhere from Scotland to the south of Spain.
which panniers?
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Pedalling Pete
Re:which panniers?
Take a look at the Super "C" panniers at http://www.carradice.co.uk/ Their models have evolved steadily for more than 50 years, so are probably the benchmark. Cotton Duck material does require internal plastic bags to protect clothes etc in wet weather, but only problem I've had is losing the anti-sway arms on flights etc. They can mail replacements anyway. Their kit usually gives decades of use.
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Pete
Re:which panniers?
There was an article in Cycle a couple of issues ago by Chris Juden about loading the bike: well worth checking out.
Onto specific flavours...
Super Cs look good to me, though I don't use them as my rack is oversize 12mm tubing and Carradice clips only fit up to 11 mm (which is /almost/ all racks!). Hey ho. My old panniers are Carradice Overlanders, their "budget" offering. They're still in regular use by a friend, now getting towards 15 years of regular use and aside from replacing the buckles on the lid closure and support bungees they've not given any trouble. Very well made, and though not completely waterpoof or as nicely detailed as the Super Cs they show you don't need top of the line for a usable bit of kit.
I now use Ortlieb Roller Plus, the lighter flavour of Ortlieb and they're still pretty bombproof, superbly built and the fittings are the easiest to use of any pannier I've ever seen: letting go of the handle locks them onto the bike, pulling the handle up unlocks them, and setting position of the hooks and steadying arm is easy and highly configuarble too. The roll top ones are easy to overload (though aren't waterproof if you do!) as well, and there's a version with a "normal" lid if you prefer that. Ortliebs have one big pocket, which is both a good thing and a bad thing... You can get pockets to fit onto them, but these are more of a faff than pockets sewn on like you get on Super Cs.
I also have a pair of Altura Orkneys, which have lots of pockets and are very well made with good materials and Rixen and Kaul locking hooks. Not so nice as the Ortlieb ones but they do work okay. Possibly over-egging the pudding pocket wise, but if you like lots then these have got them. More pockets means more seams means more leaks. They do come with raincovers as standard but I can't be bothered with them, to be quite honest, and since they clip on and off with poppers I've removed mine. The panniers are still /reasonably/ water resistant anyway. Altura's Skye model is a little simpler but that means lighter and less prone to leaky seams so that doesn't make them worse. Well worth a look.
Vau De are similar to Ortlieb in design and build. I don't find them quite as nice in use, but they're still good and very well made and a little cheaper than Ortliebs.
Karrimor stuff I've looked at has generally looked good, but they seem a bit up and down these days with the sale of the compnay and splitting off of the bike products division, so all else being equal I'd personally go for one of the above rather than Ks right now.
Whatever you get, it's best to try them on the bike before making a final choice. You'll verify that they work well with your rack, and also that you have the heel clearance you need. Different designs have more or less, and it may or not be an issue with the bike setup and size of your feet. If you try them first you know you'll be okay.
Consider two pairs rather than just one, with front lowriders as well as a rear pair. Can be awkward with suspension forks, but it is possible (see Carradice "limpet" system, for example). Though matching types in different sizes seems obvious I use different sorts as well as different sizes, with the multi-pocketed Altura Orkney fronts complementing the single compartment completely waterproof Ortliebs on the back. A good combo, I've found. Also, front panniers, being smaller, make great rear panniers for day trips.
If you're carting stuff about at least consider the trailer option. Something like a BOB Yak affects the handling of the bike less than 4 heavy panniers and is easier to load and unload.
HTH, Pete.
Onto specific flavours...
Super Cs look good to me, though I don't use them as my rack is oversize 12mm tubing and Carradice clips only fit up to 11 mm (which is /almost/ all racks!). Hey ho. My old panniers are Carradice Overlanders, their "budget" offering. They're still in regular use by a friend, now getting towards 15 years of regular use and aside from replacing the buckles on the lid closure and support bungees they've not given any trouble. Very well made, and though not completely waterpoof or as nicely detailed as the Super Cs they show you don't need top of the line for a usable bit of kit.
I now use Ortlieb Roller Plus, the lighter flavour of Ortlieb and they're still pretty bombproof, superbly built and the fittings are the easiest to use of any pannier I've ever seen: letting go of the handle locks them onto the bike, pulling the handle up unlocks them, and setting position of the hooks and steadying arm is easy and highly configuarble too. The roll top ones are easy to overload (though aren't waterproof if you do!) as well, and there's a version with a "normal" lid if you prefer that. Ortliebs have one big pocket, which is both a good thing and a bad thing... You can get pockets to fit onto them, but these are more of a faff than pockets sewn on like you get on Super Cs.
I also have a pair of Altura Orkneys, which have lots of pockets and are very well made with good materials and Rixen and Kaul locking hooks. Not so nice as the Ortlieb ones but they do work okay. Possibly over-egging the pudding pocket wise, but if you like lots then these have got them. More pockets means more seams means more leaks. They do come with raincovers as standard but I can't be bothered with them, to be quite honest, and since they clip on and off with poppers I've removed mine. The panniers are still /reasonably/ water resistant anyway. Altura's Skye model is a little simpler but that means lighter and less prone to leaky seams so that doesn't make them worse. Well worth a look.
Vau De are similar to Ortlieb in design and build. I don't find them quite as nice in use, but they're still good and very well made and a little cheaper than Ortliebs.
Karrimor stuff I've looked at has generally looked good, but they seem a bit up and down these days with the sale of the compnay and splitting off of the bike products division, so all else being equal I'd personally go for one of the above rather than Ks right now.
Whatever you get, it's best to try them on the bike before making a final choice. You'll verify that they work well with your rack, and also that you have the heel clearance you need. Different designs have more or less, and it may or not be an issue with the bike setup and size of your feet. If you try them first you know you'll be okay.
Consider two pairs rather than just one, with front lowriders as well as a rear pair. Can be awkward with suspension forks, but it is possible (see Carradice "limpet" system, for example). Though matching types in different sizes seems obvious I use different sorts as well as different sizes, with the multi-pocketed Altura Orkney fronts complementing the single compartment completely waterproof Ortliebs on the back. A good combo, I've found. Also, front panniers, being smaller, make great rear panniers for day trips.
If you're carting stuff about at least consider the trailer option. Something like a BOB Yak affects the handling of the bike less than 4 heavy panniers and is easier to load and unload.
HTH, Pete.
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glenn
Re:which panniers?
Thanks for the tips so far.
I've had my eye on the Ortlieb roller plus - waterproof and lightweight (the only drawback seems to be the single compartment aspect). But now I've been pointed in the direction of the Super Cs I'm wavering. The Super Cs are slightly heavier (perhaps negligible), and being of cotton, I'm wondering if they turn into sponges when it rains?
glenn
I've had my eye on the Ortlieb roller plus - waterproof and lightweight (the only drawback seems to be the single compartment aspect). But now I've been pointed in the direction of the Super Cs I'm wavering. The Super Cs are slightly heavier (perhaps negligible), and being of cotton, I'm wondering if they turn into sponges when it rains?
glenn
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tee-ell
Re:which panniers?
hello glenn
had no problem at all with the super c's. if the weather is really damp and humid you do get a slight dampness inside the bag, no worse than any other though, all in all they are fully waterproof. suggest you get them re treated every 2/3 years depending on how often you use them.
had no problem at all with the super c's. if the weather is really damp and humid you do get a slight dampness inside the bag, no worse than any other though, all in all they are fully waterproof. suggest you get them re treated every 2/3 years depending on how often you use them.
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Pete
Re:which panniers?
The Super Cs are cotton, but not any old cotton. Cotton Duck is made from a very fine weave so that when it gets wet the initial swelling of the fibres actually blocks out further water ingress. It also fills up the seaming holes that are where most panniers without welded seams leak. They'll get a bit heavier, but not hugely, and the inside will stay dry.
Same principle as ventile cotton, which was originally developed for pilots' immersion suits!
The single compartment thing on the Ortliebs isn't actually that big a deal in practice, but you can add their extra pockets or just keep things you want handy in a bar bag or the like. Either the Orts or Super Cs should give years of trouble free service though.
Pete.
Same principle as ventile cotton, which was originally developed for pilots' immersion suits!
The single compartment thing on the Ortliebs isn't actually that big a deal in practice, but you can add their extra pockets or just keep things you want handy in a bar bag or the like. Either the Orts or Super Cs should give years of trouble free service though.
Pete.
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bikepacker
Re:which panniers?
I have tried most panniers (Karrimor, Carradice and Ortlieb) and my latest (2 years use) are by far the best. They are the Ortlieb's Bike Packer Plus for the rear and Sports Packer Plus for the front. I have the external pockets on the rear. They hold far more than others, they are totally waterproof and the fittings are much stronger.
Carradice and Karrimor are not waterproof and prolonged exposure to rain will wet the contents. The roll top Ortliebs are good but do not hold as much and the fittings are not as strong.
Carradice and Karrimor are not waterproof and prolonged exposure to rain will wet the contents. The roll top Ortliebs are good but do not hold as much and the fittings are not as strong.
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glenn
Re:which panniers?
yes, the bike packer pluses look perfect, except for one single issue - the weight. I think they're about 600g (1.3 lbs!) heavier than the roller pluses.
(Perhpas because I've only been cycling a racing bike for the last 6 years, I've become obsessed with weight. Maybe 600g is actually negligible when touring, especially if it results in better equipment?)
glenn
(Perhpas because I've only been cycling a racing bike for the last 6 years, I've become obsessed with weight. Maybe 600g is actually negligible when touring, especially if it results in better equipment?)
glenn
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Pete
Re:which panniers?
"prolonged exposure to rain will wet the contents"... hmmm. Note that you can't just say this is simply the case with Carradice panniers, because Carradice use different materials on different panniers. The cordura ones will indeed leak through the seams, but the cotton duck will not suffer this and though ultimately they may be defeated by a real monsoon grade of rain they are basically waterproof for most intents and purposes.
Ortliebs remain my favourites by virtue of ease of use of the fittings though.
Pete.
Ortliebs remain my favourites by virtue of ease of use of the fittings though.
Pete.
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Pete
Re:which panniers?
Touring is a place to be concerened about weight, but not to be a weight weenie. You will be carrying more, but if it provides positive net benefit then that's a good thing.
So you can save weight by staying in B&Bs and not carrying a stove and tent and sleeping bag, which is good, but if you want to go somewhere wild with no B&Bs then that's bad. It's not a simple weight == bad as it often is on a racer.
With this in mind it doesn't bother me that my touring bike weighs in at around 20 Kg, because all the heavy things on it make up for their weight by being of use to me. Oversize racks won't brake or move when loaded so the handling with luggage is better, the comfy chair makes it more relaxed than a saddle, the suspension makes it more efficient over rough roads, and more comfortable too, the dynohub means no lighting worries, the steel frame from a tank factory won't break and even if it does it's relatively easy to fix, and so on.
Having said that, though the Ortlieb "plus" panniers are lighter and not as tough as the shiny "classic" ones, they're still not the sort of build which is going to fall to pieces any time soon.
Pete.
So you can save weight by staying in B&Bs and not carrying a stove and tent and sleeping bag, which is good, but if you want to go somewhere wild with no B&Bs then that's bad. It's not a simple weight == bad as it often is on a racer.
With this in mind it doesn't bother me that my touring bike weighs in at around 20 Kg, because all the heavy things on it make up for their weight by being of use to me. Oversize racks won't brake or move when loaded so the handling with luggage is better, the comfy chair makes it more relaxed than a saddle, the suspension makes it more efficient over rough roads, and more comfortable too, the dynohub means no lighting worries, the steel frame from a tank factory won't break and even if it does it's relatively easy to fix, and so on.
Having said that, though the Ortlieb "plus" panniers are lighter and not as tough as the shiny "classic" ones, they're still not the sort of build which is going to fall to pieces any time soon.
Pete.
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Ed Lehmann
Re:which panniers?
Very impressed indeed with Carradice "Bike Bureau" in Cotton Duck, for carrying kit to, from and around work.
So much so I bought a second one, for the "other side", to use with laptop and auxilliary gear.
I work on any of three sites - 6, 13 and 16 miles from home. The two more distant ones I need to travel between on occasion. With unpredictable bits of kit, lunch boxes, papers etc..
So its a bit of a tough test for panniers.
The Carradice were bought because previous kit wasn't adequate.
No problems now - apart from the legwork, that is!
Ed.
So much so I bought a second one, for the "other side", to use with laptop and auxilliary gear.
I work on any of three sites - 6, 13 and 16 miles from home. The two more distant ones I need to travel between on occasion. With unpredictable bits of kit, lunch boxes, papers etc..
So its a bit of a tough test for panniers.
The Carradice were bought because previous kit wasn't adequate.
No problems now - apart from the legwork, that is!
Ed.
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Elucasr
Re:which panniers?
One thing that I notice about many fellow clubmembers is that they hang panniers on the rack and leave them to swing with the movement of the bike. I have cycled with full lightweight camping equipment for a 400 mile /10 day trip.
It is very important that the bags are restrained from swinging. I make up elastics from 6mm or 8mm shock cord with stainless steel hooks and clamps. The hooks are made from stainless steel spokes to the size of the rack tubing and they are fastened on with a strip of S/S sheet clamped around the doubled end of the elastic.
It is very important that the bags are restrained from swinging. I make up elastics from 6mm or 8mm shock cord with stainless steel hooks and clamps. The hooks are made from stainless steel spokes to the size of the rack tubing and they are fastened on with a strip of S/S sheet clamped around the doubled end of the elastic.